I’ll throw in my story from the thread in the OP’s link:
**Having lived in Hawaii, I do, of course, remember the story that the state’s US Senator Daniel Inouye himself liked to tell of the time, as a newbie, he decided to introduce himself to House Speaker Sam Rayburn. Said Rayburn: “I know who you are. How many one-armed Japs do you think we have in the House?” (Inouye lost an arm fighting in Europe in the US Army.)
Inouye remembered the incident fondly. :D**
Still, while I use Brit and Swede and the like without regard, it’s probably best not to use Jap in this day and age.
(Note on Afghani, mentioned in this thread. The Afghani is the unit of currency in Afghanistan. The people are Afghans. An Afghan may have some Afghanis in his pocket. I think the confusion comes from the use of Pakistani next door.)
Speaking as an Aussie, I think some people grossly overreact to the word. I don’t use it, but that’s just because the overly long “Japanese person” is still less of a hassle than dealing with thin-skinned Americans.
Going right back to the OP, the premise is wrong. Scot and Finn are not short forms derived from the country names. The country names are derived from the name of the peoples. A true Scot knows that Scotland is where the Scots currently live. In fact, we are bemused to be called anything else, for instance we never describe ourselves as Scotsmen.
My guess is that Dane is the same, possibly also Swede.
Brit is different being slang. As a Briton, I am suspicious of Brit. It is usually used as an affectionate diminutive, but can be used disparagingly. Best avoided.
Jap? Well, they didn’t call the country Japland after the Japs. In Britain it was always used as an insult from the WWII period to the appearance of imported vehicles. Now it is only used as an adjective in motorcycling circles, with ‘Jap bike’ generally regarded as a positive expression (very different connotations in the USA I understand).
It’s all about context and history, isn’t it. I’ve no doubt that ‘Paki’ might not be a racist slur where you are from. For all I know, it isn’t regarded as such in Pakistan. But in the UK it’s as loaded as ‘nigger’ and stems from negative, racist attitudes to immigrants from the Indian Subcontinent who arrived here from the 50s to the 70s. So, ALL people of South Asian descent where called ‘Paki’, even if they were probably from India or Bangladesh. Corner shops selling groceries and newspapers were routinely called ‘Paki shops’, as many immigrants from the Indian subcontinent ran them. Going for an Indian meal was ‘going for a Paki’. It was a favourite slur slung at and by schoolchildren. There’s probably hardly a Brit of South Asian descent who hasn’t been derided or dismissed with the word at some point. So it’s extremely offensive here and really jars my ears.
One of the many uses of the word “paki” by British racists has been to class all people from South Asia (and beyond) under the same slur. Thus “paki” has been used to describe Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians, Nepalese, Sri Lankans, and I once heard an Irish racist I shared a house with use it to describe Malaysians. It’s not a simple contraction of the country name in that context.
ETA: I see SanVito said the same thing as me, but earlier. I wrote most of the post then went to the toilet before posting it. Now I look like an arriviste, and all because of my bladder.
Well, I know that “jap” can be used as a slur, but had no idea that it was usually (if not always) considered a slur (I’m a native American from Michigan). I was directed to this thread from the original thread because I expressed my dismay at the moderator non-warning over there. In fact I still have a hard time imagining the “can” be used as a slur. Hell, even saying “f’ing japs,” the real slur seems to be the censured word. And really, I’m not generally very obtuse. It’s obvious in my vocabulary that some other ethnic works definitely are slurs (“nip” being one), but jap=japanese strikes me as incredible. Another perfectly good word I now have to add to my blacklist (also debating adding “retarded” from another thread).
This is another one we (in my professional sphere) use: “Pakis.” I don’t know if it’s a slur in US English or not, but I always assume “not” since we use it so casually (like “jap,” but never “nip” nor “kyke” nor “nigger”). Because there are fewer Pakistanis in the USA, I suppose we don’t have the general experience with the word yet.
I can understand not being aware that a particular term is considered offensive - especially given that these things change from country to country.
“Paki” will get you a well-deserved smack in the mouth in the UK, whilst it might be acceptable elsewhere. My (Scottish) mother prefers to use the term “coloured” when speaking about black people because she thinks it’s the most polite term, an opinion which my (American) girlfriend doesn’t share.
But surely the correct response on discovering that a term is considered to be offensive by some is to do a bit of reading and conclude “ok I can see why some people find that offensive, I’ll try to moderate my language from now on” rather than “well I don’t find that offensive so I don’t see what the fuss is”.
The brilliant comedian Stewart Lee sums up the distinction quite well in the first five minutes of this
My understanding was that Scotland and Denmark were so called because they were the homes of the Scots and the Danes, not the other way round.
The Scots, or Scotti, for example, were identified as a people when they were in Ireland, before resettling in what therefore became known as Scotland. The Danes, or Dani, were identified as a people when they were in (present-day) Sweden.
I don’t think it is. At least, I was introduced to the word by a pair of Pakistani-American students who lived in the same dorm. They used the word freely and never seemed to mind when I did the same. It was only years later that I found out that it was considered offensive in British English.
Of course, that was nearly 10 years ago. And these things do change.
I would have thought that the German equivalent to “Jap” would have been “Jerry”. “Kraut” isn’t derived from the name of the country or nationality: it’s similar to “Limey” or “Pom” for English people, or even “Yank” for Americans.
However, whether the word is derived from the country’s name, or from some (alleged) characteristic of the nationality, the offensiveness is entirely based on usage, not on any objective criteria on how the word was derived. (As many other have said already.)
Jap isn’t really considered offensive in Ireland. We use the term a lot when describing imported cars. “Jap imports” would be a pretty common phrase here.
I’d never use the term in America or to Americans though as I’m aware of the offense it could cause.
One of the clues that “Paki” is a slur and not simply a shortened ethnic term is that it is used as a demeaning term for anyone who looks South Asian. It’s not used to identify actual Pakistanis.
Right, but that seems more like an adjective than a noun. You’d say “British defense minister” and “British Auto Service”, not “Briton defense minister” and “Briton auto service”, I think. Do people say things like “That service station is owned and staffed by Paks”?
Near me in Oxford is a shop called “Pak Halal” (stop press: really really cheap veg and chicken breasts!). However, from reading Indian media, I agree that “Pak” is a contraction of the country as an adjective, and is not a noun for the individual countrymen.
