This is a continuation of the hijack of the motorcycle thread. I am not flaming yojimbo here. He was contrite about this, and was very willing to be considerate of other people’s feelings on the matter.
But my question is - Is “Jap” really not considered a racial slur in Ireland?
It wasn’t a slur in the US until fairly recently, was it? I was surprised when I first heard it has a negative connotation, and isn’t just short for ‘Japanese’. This was probably the 90s.
I admit it’s quite possible I was simply oblivious.
BTW, should this be in GQ, and not the BBQ pit maybe?
A couple years ago an Irish chat show host used the word and it caused quite a bit of controversy, although he seemed unaware himself that it was offensive. So I’d say that it’s recognised as a racial slur by some people but not by all.
yojimbo is definitely not a person to knowingly use a racial slur btw.
I won’t reiterate what I said in the other thread, but I wanted to say, lest any blame falls on him, yojimbo was a complete gentleman about it. Didn’t realise that some consider it offensive and was open to the fact that it could be.
Nah. The use of “jap” and “nip” (which is short for “nippon”, and rarely heard these days) as perjorative terms in the U.S. dates back to at least WWII, maybe earlier. The OED might have some info on the first print occurances of these usages, but I don’t have access to it. Wikipedia says:
But doesn’t offer any evidence.
Having said that, given that the word’s usage as a racial slur seems to have arisen in the U.S. in the 20th century, I wouldn’t expect that usage to be familar in Ireland. There are certainly racial slurs in other English speaking countries that are either considered innocuous here in the U.S. or are virtually unknown. Some that come to mind are “paki”, “wog”, and “eskimo”. The first two are, I understand, racial slurs in the U.K, but are almost never heard here (most people wouldn’t even know what they meant, much less that they’re offensive), and I’ve been told by a few people that “eskimo” is considered a slur in Canada, but it is considered fine here in the U.S.
In my experienced Jap can easily be used in the same way as aussie, brit, yank or other slang. Obviously the word can also be used in a pejorative manner, but it is all about context isn’t it?
Foreigner isn’t a racist term, but I have heard it used in contexts and tones of voice where it had an was absolutly and clearly a racist/xenophobic term.
I understand that walking up to an unknown asian person and asking them “hey, are you a JAP???” is obviously racist, and downright rude. Likewise for any other more racist terms(kraut, nip, paki). What I don’t understand is people who can take the term “Jap bike”, which is obviously the shortening of “Japanese bike”, and turn it into an insult. **
It’s not a slight on the Japanese people, culture or even their products, just a descriptor. On top of that, we’re talking about fucking vehicles here!
Sam
**(would motorbikes all around the world be offended by being called a “bike”?
The point is that if the term “jap” is a pejorative when used as a noun, it is still a pejorative when used as an adjective. If “jap” is offensive, then “jap bike” is likewise offensive.
You already know this, yet seem to have a hard time admitting it. Honestly, would you think that the phrase “chink bike” would be acceptable because “chink” is used as a descriptor? To use a non-asian example, would you call the Sean Jean clothing line “nigger suits”?
That said, it is my personal belief that the offensiveness of the word “jap” is on the wane. To me, it is about as offensive as calling the English “limies”, though I don’t personally use it in case others find it more offensive than I do.
Guess I should have included a request that, if you are from Ireland, and your location isn’t included in your member info, please let us know.
I didn’t really want to debate if it’s a slur in the U.S. It quite obviously is, and has been at, as pointed out already, at least since WWII. It’s not a word that is used in polite company here, and I really don’t think that using it as a descriptor for an inanimate object mitigates that; IMO it’s best to just avoid the word altogether. A good test might be whether you would walk up to a Japanese person and call him a “Jap” to his face. Most Japanese people in the U.S. would take offense at that, I believe.
Obviously, everyone agrees that yojimbo meant no harm. My question was, is it considered a derogatory word in Ireland, as it is in the U.S.? If any Irish dopers could give their opinions, it would be greatly appreciated.
I suppose I should have mentioned that I am not Irish, but American.
I had a high school history teacher who admonished one of my classmates for using “Jap” during a lesson on WWII on the grounds that it was insulting–that was 1965. In 1968, Spiro Agnew raised a firestorm of protest when he referred to one of the reporters covering the campaign as “the fat Jap.”*
While there are a lot of people in the U.S. who still bear grudges against the Japanese dating to losses we suffered in the Pacific, the word has been considered rude since well before the period of PC.
Given the racist nature of propaganda during WWII, I would be surprised that Jap was not an insult in the U.S., but (as with Pakis and Wogs and similar terms mentioned above), I would also be surprised that the word carried the same stigma among peoples who were not actively engaged in direct contact with the Japanese. It is fairly common, in English, to shorten the colloquial names of people from other countries. Since not all shortening is intended to be offensive (one rarely encounters someone who intends an insult by the terms Brit or Yank), I would be surpried if Jap was an insult in Ireland.
Tricky one, really. I’ve been called a brit on many occasions, and felt no insult, but I’ve also heard the terms Paki, Chink and Jap used in an undeniably insulting manner.
Allow me to totally disagree with you. “Chink” is not a shortening, and neither is “nigger”. Both words are clearly racist and have nothing to do with either the words Chinese or Black or African-American(if you must).
Sam
GaWd, we are aware that “Jap” is short for “Japanese” (as “Nip” is short for “Nippon”). That doesn’t mean they aren’t offensive.
It’s true that not all shortened nicknames are offensive. That doesn’t mean all shortened names are non-offensive.
So which is it? In your earlier post you admitted that calling a person a “jap” would be “racist, and outright rude”, but that it is O.K. if used as a descriptor. Now you say that it is inoffensive simply because it is a shortening of the word “Japanese”.
I’m having trouble reconciling these two statements. If it’s inoffensive because it is shorthand, why is it still “racist, and downright rude” to use it to refer to a person?
It really depends on the inflection on which you say it. Growing up, the only time I ever really heard “Jap” would be to describe car imports from Japan, “Jap Imports”.
That’s the only time we use “Jap” here too… ::shrug::
In Australia, as in Ireland, Jap is commonly used when referring to cars or bikes as is shown hereandhere. It is not used however to refer to someone from Japan.
I’m not Irish but I’ve lived in Ireland for over four years. I gave my opinion above.
Yes, and it was much appreciated, thanks. Actually, you were one of the few posters who actually addressed my question.