Is Jap a perjorative in this day and age?

Great Debates
1

Rather than further derail this thread and specifically this post maybe we should clear the air here.

Jap as a demunitive for Japanese was clearly a derogatory racist term used in WW2 to whip up anti-Japanese sentiment and further villify the enemy. I hope that can be accepted as a given. What about today?

In the US there are still plenty of Americans of Japanese ancestry that were placed in “internment” camps for the duration of WW2 who are still alive today. My father, a decorated combat veteran of WW2 pacific theater and the Korean war used the words Jap, Nip, Gook & Chink pretty interchangeably when I grew up and it was definately racist. When speaking of personal friends it would be Japanese or Chinese or Korean. I’ve at least broke him of the habit around me but that took a few decades. When visiting me, once on the Tokyo subway my father took exception to getting bumped and said loudly “I used to shoot Japs like him in the war.” :eek:

I’d be the first to admit that “Jap” is a convenient abbreviation for Japanese, and it’s too bad there’s the negative racist connotations around the word. I find saying J-Town for example meaning Japan Town to be not very natural.

Connotations around the word may be different is say Australia, where an awful lot of words are shortened, and can discuss that specifically.

I find it amazing that people in this day and age would say that “Jap” is not racist or have negative connotations or baggage but is rather PC gone too far. Maybe someone 25 years never was exposed to the prejucial virus of the word Jap and have no context for it being a bad word. I dunno.

So, is Jap a racist perjorative or PC gone too far?

2

PC gone way too far, IMO. In fact, outside the US, I’d say the word only has one meaning: a commonly accepted shortening of “Japanese”.

It’s certainly no more “offensive” than “Yank” or “Kiwi” or “Pom” or “Aussie”.

And your Dad’s story seems fine to me. It’s a statement of fact- he was in The War, and he used to shoot Japanese people.

“Gook”, “Chink”, “Slant” and “Yellow Peril” are all offensive words for a Japanese (or Asian) person. The Tokyo Subway is possibly not the most appropriate place to mention that, but it’s not like he called them “Gooks” or anything similar to their faces.

But anyone who sees “Jap” as anything more than a shortening of the word “Japanese” in this day and age not only has too much spare time on their hands, they need to get their priorities sorted out, IMHO.

3

Well that’s me told, then. :rolleyes:

I’d be surprised to hear the word come from anybody under the age of about 70 and not be being used in a derogatory way. Or in a poor attempt at ironic anti-PCism.

4

“Jap” actually goes back several decades before World War II. I’ve seen it used in headlines about the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.

5

Your post is a perfect example of PC run amok. According to the OED, “Chink” is just short for “Chinese”. Objecting to its use is as ridiculous as objecting to “Jap”. Being offended by “Slant” is even more silly. This term just refers to the configuration of the eye produced by the epicanthic fold, which is a simple biological fact. Leave it to members of the PC police like yourself to declare biological facts offensive! And, of course, “Yellow Peril” isn’t used to refer to a person at all, offensively or otherwise.

As for “gook”, I am unable to find an etymology, but I suppose that that won’t stop you from disparaging our troops by attributing the most evil motives possible to their naturally developed and convenient shorthand. They will just have to beg your forgiveness if, in the heat of battle, they didn’t find terms more to the liking of your PC sensibilities!

Or maybe you could just find better ways to spend your time.

[/parody]

6

I lived in Japan for two years. I was told specifically by by school not to use the word ‘Jap’.
I thought it was a convenient abbreviation.
But, I asked Japanese people. Every one of them said they did not like it. They said I should not use that word ‘Jap’. They did not say it was ‘offensive’. But they said for me not to use the word.
So I did not. And I do not now.

Same story with ‘Nip’.

7

In Australia, “Lebbo” is only short for Lebanese.

“Paki” isn’t offensive in the US, but it sure is in the UK due to its use against Pakistanis by fascists.

I was surprised to hear “Jap import” being used in Ireland for Japanese cars - but then “Jap” has never been a perjorative in Ireland.

I find Mr Enfield’s argument to be missing the point: it’s not that it’s a diminutive, it’s the historical context in which it has been used.

8

I major in Japanese, and I remember the teacher chewing this one guy out for putting “Jap.” at the top of his paper as an abbreviation for the course name. I never heard “Jap” being used in everyday speech–Japanese was always shortened to “J”. We were “J-majors” who listened to “J-rock” and hit on “sekushii bish”…but that last one is an entirely different story… :stuck_out_tongue:

9

provide some context please. How do you refer to aboriginals? Aboriginal, Abo or bong? Do you use septic or seppo? thanks

10

The Aboriginal thing is a bit iffy, and no matter what answer I give someone’s going to get offended, but depending on the context and who I’m talking to, I’d use either Aboriginal or Abbo (not intended to be offensive, despite certain groups insisting that it is).

I wouldn’t call them “Boongs”, “Fuzzy-Wuzzies” or “Coons” either, but there are (less enlightened) people who do.

There’s a huge difference between merely shortening something’s name, and coming up with a racial epithet, IMO.

While we’re here, one of my favourite examples of Embarrassing Things From The Past is an issue of National Geographic- 1942, or therabouts, which has an article on the New Guinea Campaign.

One of the photographs are of a group of Natives who had been helping the Australians in the battle (and don’t get nearly enough credit for it, IMO- without their help, the Japanese may have taken New Guinea, and made things difficult for Australia indeed). The caption is something along the lines of “A group of Native New Guineans assisting Australian troops by carrying supplies, ferrying the wounded, and acting as guides”- which is fine- but the next sentence, which I quote in it’s entirety: "The troops affectionately call them “Boongs”. :eek:

And neither Septic or Seppo are supposed to be racial epithets, either- it’s from Cockney Rhyming Slang- Septic Tank=Yank. Seppo is just a shortened version thereof.

Personally, I use either “American” or “Yank”, again depending on the context and who I’m talking to. As much as I enjoy Cockney Rhyming Slang, people have enough trouble understanding what I’m talking about 90% of the time without me sounding like a character from a Guy Ritchie movie on top of it. :smiley:

And I know the Chinese and Japanese have all sorts of unpleasant names for each other that they don’t use in front of the Gaijin or the Gwailo (which can have some interesting interpretations themselves, depending on context and who’s speaking to whom).

The Maori call Europeans “Pakeha”, which is not a term I’m especially fond of- but I also accept it’s not supposed to be an insult, it’s just the Maori word for European.

If a Maori person referred to me as a Pakeha while I was present, I’d tell them It’s not my preferred ethnic description, but if they want to use it as a generic term for all Europeans- they’re welcome to, as I’m not going to get worked up over it.

11

I don’t think he’s a Listerine! :smiley:

12

thanks, that does provide a context. we can argue the seppo thing in another thread as i’m definately of a differing opinion. there are past threads on it as well.

in an australian context, was “Jap” used as a perjorative during WW2?

i’m using a pda at the moment. IIRC, emtomology of “gook” is likely a bastardization from probably korean (potentially cantonese) and the word country. GI’s heard “mi gook” or american, and transformed into gook. i’ve seen web cites but can’t access at the moment.

13

WWII was well before my time (and I wasn’t born in Australia), but my understanding is that “Jap” managed to be both a mere discriptor and a perjorative, depending again on context.

The thing to bear in mind is that the Japanese didn’t treat Australian POWs especially well (also see Burma-Thai Railway), and they also bombed Darwin several times.

In other words, there are A LOT of people in Australia- even people in my age group- who have never, and will never, forgive the Japanese for what they did during WWII, just as there are many people who feel the same way (and rightly so) about the Nazis or the Russians (to a lesser extent).

That doesn’t make it “Right”, but it’s safe to say that there’s a sizeable percentage of people here that don’t care if the Japanese are offended by the term, for whatever reason. Certainly, most people use it simply as a shortened version of “Japanese”, with no baggage or ethnic slighting intended- and if the Japanese are offended by that, tough shit.

Your results may vary, of course.

14

Gook as a racial epithet was used by Americans in Haiti in 1920 for sure, and shows up in print in 1921 referring to the people of the Philippines. Most linguist accept that it most likely comes from the earlier goo-goo which was used by Americans as a contemptuous reference to the language and then the people of the Far East as early as the 1870’s, but certainly was in full force in the Military by the late 1890’s.

Sorry for the hijack.

15

Here’s a link with both the Philippines and Haiti and this one mentions “gook Apaches”

16

I think it’s offensive, but I can’t remember the last time I ever heard anyone actually using it.

17

You’ve never spent any time with my father-in-law. :mad:

18

I use/d “Jap” in one context only- to refer to the WWII Convicted War Criminal Government of Japan. It is a mild perjorative, but no worse than “Yank or Brit”. In this context a Mild Perjorative is proper for several reasons:

  1. It is historicaly correct, but it should be used only in the context of WWII. In other words, “The Yanks & Brits fought the Japs & Krauts in WWII” isn’t being racist, it’s using period scholarly terminology. And, if you warn us for Jap,

  2. It sets apart the sadistic criminal Government of Japan from the Japanese people, who were certainly not all criminals or culpable.

  3. It’s not a “racial” term- it refers to the WAR CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF WWII JAPAN AND THEIR MILITARY. Just as “Nazi” refers to the WAR CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF WWII GERMANY AND THEIR MILITARY- not every German was a Nazi.

I’ll point out that in a similar scholary conext Tomndeb in the GQ thread about the “United Negro College Fund” even uses the word “Nigger”. It wasn’t used as a perjorative, I don’t think he was wrong. And of course, the word “Negro” was bandied about a lot, with even a few “coloured” thrown in.

I respect the Mods here, but this call was wrong. What’s worse, some decade & 10000 posts from now, they’ll use it to show I had a warning in the “ATMB” thread about why I was banned. :eek: :stuck_out_tongue:

19

A man from Poland is a Pole.
A man from Scotland is a Scot.
A man from Italy is an Italian.
A man from Great Britain is a Brit.
A man from Mexico is a Mexican.
A man from the U.S. is an American
A man from Autralia is an Aussie.
A man from New Zealand is a Kiwi.
A man from Germany is a German.
A man from France is a Frenchman.
A man from Denmark is a Dane.
A man from Ethiopia is an Ethiopian.
A man from Namibia is a Namibian.
A man from Ireland is an Irishman.
A man from Spain is a Spaniard.
A man from Finland is a Finn.
A man from Japan is a __________.

It seems like we have taken a fine and useful word out of usage because we’ve been told it’s taboo. How about someone from China? Is Chinaman similarly off base because at one time it was used perjoratively? Is there anothe word for a single person who is Chinese?

Regarding WWII, much of the “Jap” usage was in newspaper headlines and posters where there is always a desire to shorten words. In posters, the word was often accompanied by illustrations intended to ridicule and demonize the enemy. Why that association shold stick among generations of whom many of the people have never even seen these posters seems odd to me. I think the best thing to do would be to use it all the time. In short order the word would be stripped of the association that some fear give it so much power to insult.

20

I would guess Chinese, but I think that would be to hard to use. :slight_smile:

That sounds like someone that wants to wishfully ignore that Japanese and Americans of Japanese descent still consider it an insult:

The Asian American Journalists Association (AAJA) have these recommendations:

http://www.lorenjavier.com/asian/terminology.html