The Canadian Election Thread. (Or maybe not...)

Politics & Elections
461

Well, sure you’d have a better chance at communicating with a random Calgarian on the street in English than in French (you’d probably have a better chance with Mandarin than French), but if you spoke to someone in French here that didn’t speak it, the worst you’d get is a “sorry, don’t speak it” as they walked past you. I swear we’re not hostile to French here.

As far as the government bureaucracy, I’d consider it a scandal if you weren’t able to walk into the Federal building here and get served in French.

462

There are rednecks on both sides. Most of us on both sides just want to get along.

There’s also a lot of media propaganda on both sides who would like to convince us what the other side is thinking, when we’re really not.

463

I think this kind of goes back to another thread from a few years ago rather than this one, but I just wanted to say this: When I perceive “English Canadian” culture that I didn’t grow up with, I think of it simply as something I haven’t discovered, and I embrace it (except for country music. That shit’s crap no matter where it comes from. And fishing. Fish are gross.). Same with “French Canadian/Québecois” culture. Just because I didn’t know it and didn’t grow up with it doesn’t mean it hasn’t influenced the people, the society and the politics around me. So it’s my culture too, if I embrace it, which I do.

Many - most - Quebecers don’t do that with regards to “English Canadian” culture, and most of the ROC doesn’t do that with regards to “French Canadian” culture. It’s a shame, really, because it’s all actually Canadian culture. We all had to be taught about our own cultures in order to appreciate them. Sadly, too many people choose to stop learning, especially when it gets too hard (such as with another language).

464

Hell, in your very post you state that you “don’t dare speak French in Calgary”. Seems to me right off the bat that your perception of the RoC is a trifle … off. What exactly do you expect to happen if you speak French “deep in your part of Canada, so not a place for French”?

This sort of encapsulates the problem right there. You have created this highly negative image in your own mind of what the RoC is about, and it is seemingly based on language dualism. It is sort of distorted mirror image of what you claim the RoC thinks about Quebec. The fact is, in the RoC, aside from some small town bigots in Ontario near the Quebec border, most people would be charmed to hear French spoken, and are unlikely to ‘release the hounds’ if someone speaks French. It simply isn’t that big an issue.

465

Some of them have acted like this in this thread. Telling Quebecers their opinion isn’t needed or valid, just act like everyone else, the “you’re special, happy now? Now shut up” attitude. Yes, it absolutely goes both ways (many Quebecers have a twisted view of the ROC), but you’re being blind if you can’t recognize that it exists.

466

Is anyone in this thread claiming that they “don’t dare to speak English” in Montreal, unless they knew that the person they were speaking to is Anglophone? How would you react if someone said that?

There is no symmetry here.

467

People have certainly said it to me in real life, and I could probably find examples elsewhere on these boards. Some people seem to find a lot of joy in relating a story about visiting Québec and finding a random gas station attendant that didn’t speak English and then being all pissed off about it. Rants about the “language police”, and digs about being “forced to learn French” (which did happen in this thread). Comments about being afraid they’ll get yelled at for speaking English. I lived in the GTA/Hamilton for six years. You will never convince me that these sorts of things don’t get said, because they got said to me all the time, by all kinds of people.

Just because it wasn’t said in this thread, doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
ETA: FWIW, in Montreal my default language is French. I simply don’t assume people speak English as well as I speak French.

468

There are huge differences between different regions of our country, and also differences between the cultures that came here and settled. Winnipeg is different from Montréal; Mennonites have a different perspective from Ukrainians. Those differences are interesting. The big question is - are those differences more important than what we have in common?

For me, the answer is a clear ‘no’. We’ve shared a history for too long, even if our points of view differ. I have far more in common with even the most ardent separatist or fanatical conservative than I have in common with a randomly picked Australian, or New Zealander, or USAlien…

469

I think there’s a lot of misinformation on both sides. I came across this site on Winning the United States to Quebec Separatism, and it made me laugh out loud in places, it was so out of touch with reality. I don’t think that site is typical of a separatist site (or maybe it is, I don’t know), but there’s plenty of misinformation to go around.

470

The point here is that someone from the Quebec side has said it right now, in this thread, in the post the person you were responding to was reacting to. And said it as if there was nothing particulatly controversial about the notion.

This is a disconnect with reality, which is particularly egregious in a post condemning the RoC for its “arrogance” in making invidious assumptions about Quebec.

No doubt someone, somewhere, has said equally clueless stuff about Quebec. But tu quoque sounds no better whatever language it is said in …

You are mixing up issues. Someone finding some person in Quebec who does not speak English and being all pissed about it isn’t being delusional, only parochial and bigoted; people can genuinely disagree about the wisdom of Bill 101 (I think it is a bad idea myself) without being outside the border of fact.

471

You mean Americans? {Muffin ducks and runs after making an unfounded cheap shot.}

472

Don’t let your little huff get in the way of the fact that I was past tense.

473

Is this really how Quebec views the rest of Canada? That is wholly disheartening.

I am a Montreal-born Anglophone Canadian (a Quebecker, even!) I grew up speaking French and English until my parents decided that the Quebec political climate was becoming hostile to English speakers and not a great place to raise children. I find it heart-rending to contemplate such major changes in my family’s home.

But I think you need to get out and expereince the rest of Canada, Hypnogogic Jerk. Bilingual people are everywhere. You pretty well can’t get a job in customer service in a government office unless you’re bilingual. (I take it you haven’t been on jobs.gc.ca recently). You can’t even get a customer service job in the private sector, because if it requires telephone answering duties, they’re looking for someone bilingual. My good friend spent four years at business school – just to get hired solely because he grew up in French Immersion school. (My parents never chose that option for me, despite my Quebec background. They speak fluent French too, or at least they did in 1988.) Not having used my French in nearly twenty-three years has made me forget nearly everything I knew, and that has put me at a great disadvantage, trying to work in English Canada, where you wouldn’t dare speak French.

I knew French people in Calgary, too, when I lived out west. They might have been the recipients of some mockery by some idiot redneck, but I never witnessed it firsthand. Canadians are by and large welcoming and patient, and understanding of cultural and language barriers, and we have a large (certainly much larger than you seem to believe) population of French-speakers who are required to use it in a business setting. Even in Calgary.

I’m wishing I could learn French again. Not because I feel some amorphous sense of guilt for being Canadian and not knowing French, but simply because it’s a highly useful job skill that is in demand.

474

I’m sorry but on this topic I don’t think Cat Whisperer has a coherent point at all, nor do you. The worth of the different peoples that make up a state is not something measured on a balance sheet, as CW implies, and you seem to be projecting the xenophobia you feel onto others. In my honest opinion you’re both hopelessly out to lunch, just at different restaurants.

475

Did anyone get to watch the French debate? I just got home from rehearsal - missed the whole thing.

476

I didn’t realize that my comment would be taken as a balance sheet thing (although I probably should have anticipated that). I just meant that in response to the idea that Canada needs Quebec just like they need us, I was questioning why - what is Quebec bringing to the table other than a list of demands?

477

This thread is such a wonderful microcosm of Canadian politics. Just wonderful. :slight_smile:

478

I was at work, but was able to speak at length with a friend who was able to watch it while in Trois Rivieres. From how she described it, it sounded like a repeat of the English debate. She (usually a Conservative) was disappointed by Harper, whom she said was quiet and lacked hard facts. She didn’t like the way Duceppe and Layton kept interrupting. She thought Ignatief spoke very well, both in his content and in his ability to speak French.

479

Hydro-electric power.
Poutine.
Celine Dion.
Roberto Luongo.
William Shatner.

Not much else really.

(I’m joking BTW.)

480

The idea that a province consisting of approximately 25% of a country’s population brings nothing at all to said country is ridiculous.