Brutus, Official Coalition governments are quite rare even under these minority situations. What tends to happen is a loose affliation between the parties and much more horse trading than in normal situations. In the House, there are party line votes and free votes (ie members are free to vote their conscience and it’s not held against them within their own party, at least publicly) so it’s not as if it’s rule by fiat until the next election call, though the PM can decide which is which. Big Social Issues are often free votes. In addition, Martin will go to the NDP for support on some issues, and to the Conservatives for support on others. If the government loses a vote on a money bill (ie the budget) it automatically dissolves (non-confidence) and either other parties try to form another government, or if they can’t, we have a new election.
Well, I just looked at that election site referenced earlier. It now shows the Liberals with 135 and the NDP with 19. So, see y’all back here again in a year or so?
Wait, so the NDP is screwed, right? Courting them won’t do the Liberals any good, because they’d be better off with the BQ in their corner?
No. The Bloc is effectively poison to any party that courts them. The sole reason for the Bloc’s existence is to remove Quebec from the federation. Now that gets played as guarding Quebec’s unique national interests, but it effectively means that they’re looking out for number one. Given that Martin’s Quebec lieutenant is Lapierre an ex-Bloc member I’m surprised no one ever went after that. Ah well.
Many have said that a Conservative minority would hook up with the Bloc but aside from some small similarities in believing that the Federal government should reduce its involvement with provincial affairs their goals are completely different.
As for the NDP they’ve never had any great amounts of actual political power at a federal level. That doesn’t mean they have no power. The ability to continually question the government of the day on it actions gives them a chance to influence the position of the Canadian political centre. Look at the influence of the Reform party in moving the debate away from entitlements to fiscal restraint, deficit elimination and debt repayment. All that was done while never being in power. The NDP can (and does) play an equal role in social progressive issues.
Judging by Duceppes comments, I agree that the Bloc have once again forgotten that voters just might be voting against the Liberals rather than for separation. So far as the NDP goes, they have never been in power officialy, but their status as the unofficial partner in previous Liberal minorities has given them a great deal of influence on social issues.
It was an opinion, I gave my opinion, which of course, some people don’t like. Why don’t you complain that you don’t like my opinion and I should be banned? - just like I’ve been banned practically everywhere else for expressing my opinion. I do not flame people, no direct, personal ad hominem, yet strangely enough, I keep getting banned for what they call “trolling” - which means essentially, expressing an unpopular opinion which apparently provokes unhappiness in simpletons, who then whine to the admins who predicatably do not want any hassle.
Go right ahead. That’s why I never signed on here, gotta see how it goes first. See how long until they ban me. It’s become something of an experiment with me.
This is a pretty good election outcome, the government won’t be able to do much of anything of consequence without the opposition blocking it. That’s about the best anyone could expect from a hopelessly corrupt government : nothing.
persecution complex much? :rolleyes:
Oh the weary mantle of the martyr.
So far your contribution has been a farcical rant on the value of voting, made up numbers, and unsupported disdain for the new election financing act
You don’t troll pal, you simply don’t argue well.
I don’t think so - getting used to it.
It’s curious - why are they all so afraid of my opinion? No need to be. I do not fear anyone elses’ opinion. In fact, bring em on. The tribal abstractions of talking monkey world are my favorite topic. Did we get a new alpha male “leader” last night? Oh, goody, surely the country will improve immediately.
I find the whole censorship dynamic fascinating. Anyway, you’re right, that’s enough about that.
Sheesh… some people can’t get over themselves.
Oh yes Sven Jolly we are afraid of your scary but oh so enlightened oppinion :rolleyes:
You may wish to be banned but believe me it is simplier to scroll past your posts.
Anyway. I can see some pollsters in the unemployment lines today. I was expecting such a close race between the Liberals and the Conservatives.
I’m not disappointed by the results. A Liberal/ NDP loose coalition could be could. I’m sure Layton with keep on Martin and make sure that he keeps the promisses. Though I have heard a Liberal member saysing they will not form any official coalitions and run like they had a majority. (Joe Clark anyone)
Martin will do a speech later today so we’ll get a better idea how things will go.
Hey for the first time in years there will be opposition seats on the right of the house instead of the left having to suffer with a few ruling seats.
Serves us right for granting them their sovereignty.
Just a quick question to go along with my good-luck wishes: Is there a possibility that the largest party in Commons would not lead, or even be part of, a ruling coalition? If the Tories and one or two other minority parties could work a deal that would add up to 155 seats, could they shut the Libs out?
A quick link to a map of the results. National Map (pdf).
On the upside the Liberals can no longer paint the Conservatives as some sort of runty regional party.
Elvis1ives, the GG would likely allows the party with the largest number of seats to make the next government, or at least continue the government until it lost the confidence of the house. It did happen that a smaller party (Liberal) which had been the government worked out a coalition with the Progressive party back in 1926 (or such). Now the Liberals had fewer seats than the Conservatives yet the Conservatives did not have a majority. Since King had been the PM the GG allowed the government to continue; to much howling and gnashing of teeth from the Conservative party. Eventually the GG fired him. Much more gnashing of teeth ensued. Look up the King-Byng Affair if you want more gory details.
I was gonna post what Harper needed to do to be the next PM, but Grey beat me to it.
As for the Bloc, I think that people in the West need to remember that most Quebecers who vote bloc do so because their only other option is Liberal. Quebec voters don’t want to separate, but given the choice between approving the scandal-ridden Martinites, or choosing the ‘us-first’ party, they went with the latter. The dynamic would be very different if any conservative party had bothered to include field decent french-speaking candidates in the past 12 years they would now be in power-- but Harper, Day, and Manning really haven’t succeeded in branching out of the West, as yesterday’s vote shows.
Oh, and something to clarify what somebody else brought up. Each party that received at least 2% of the popular vote yesterday will get $1.75 per vote, as part of Chretien’s campaign finance reform laws, so expect to hear a lot more from the Green party next time around.
There’s that but there is also the fact that whenever a Neanderthal CRAPPER opens its mouth and slams French language/culture, the fear factor kicks in and the old PC image as an Anglo only party reemerges. What is stranger is the fact that the NDP has a hard time breaking through here. Socially, we are closer to them than to the Regressive-Conservative.
Well detop, the Conservatives had the choice of trying to take seats in Ontario or Quebec. Given the choice, Ontario seems the appropriate focus. Quebec tends left so the chance they could pick up seats from the Liberals is slim.
And could we knock of the CRAP, regressive-Conservative etc.? I’ve yet to see anyone denigrating the NDP as commie wackos or the Liberals as the Lie-berals.
One thing I find somewhat absurd about our system is that the NDP received about 15% of the vote, and won 19 seats, while the Bloc received about 12% of the vote but won 54 seats. It seems genuinely unfair that the system should be set up in such a way. And that’s coming from someone who voted Liberal just to have some small chance of defeating Broadbent here and preventing the NDP from winning the Ottawa Centre seat (which they did anyway 
).
I think proportional representation would probably need to be examined in the future, but most likely at the provincial level first. Also, I don’t put much stock in Western alienation. This is not intended as an offence to Westerners, just that anyone who supports the Conservative party has to realize that even a very small number of idiots spewing white-trash comments about gay marriage or French Language issues is going to piss people off, so holding on to the party despite these gaffs is going to leave you on the short end of the stick. I would have voted Conservative happily if they were more like the old PC party that the Reform party, and could root out the rednecks in favour of enlightened progressives.
No offense, but the Conservatives make it too easy. I would prefer a PC government to Liberal, but I could not stand by in good conscience and vote for them after so many gaffes.
The NDP do a pretty good job of alienating themselves anyway, so no real need to attack them, and despite the Liberals’ corruption, they were the only party that tabled a realistic platform. Again, I would have preferred a PC government, but that just was not an option this time.
This is not intended as an offence to other Canadians, just that anyone who supports the Liberal party has to realize that even a very small number of idiots being party to lies about cross burning, corruption, hoodwinking of Parliament, the gutting of the military and the mismanagement of billions of taxpayers money is going to piss people off, so holding on to the party despite these gaffs is going to leave you on the short end of the stick.
Don’t I wish. 
Two questions come to mind:
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Is Chuck Cadman (the independent from BC) at all likely to align himself with the Libs & the NDP to form a razor-thin majority?
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Suppose a motion of non-confidence is tabled in six months. The Liberals & the NDP vote against it, while the Cons, the BQ and Chuck vote for it. 154 Ayes, 154 Nays. What happens?