I’m kinda sorta in the market for a new car. Maybe in the next couple of months anyway. Among my list of top contenders are a couple of diesel options:
VW Golf TDI
VW Jetta TDI
Let me start by saying I know NOTHING about cars in general. Which means I know even less about diesels. So I’ve been poking around the internet trying to find out what might be different about owning a gas vs. diesel vehicle.
So far I’ve been able to find sites that explain what the difference is between both types of engines. But what I’m looking for is how different it is to own/maintain/service a diesel. So here are a few questions:
Diesel #2 - I’ve noticed that the gas stations in my area that sell diesel call it “#2”. Are there any other kinds? So far as I know, I’ve never seen anything else, but if I ever run into it, should I avoid it?
Repair shops - will all shops generally have people knowledgeable in diesel engines? Or should I seek out places that specialize in diesel or VW work?
General maintenance - I’m the kind of gal who goes in for the oil change every 3,000 miles, and once in a while does the big ol’ mileage services. Anything I should know about diesels that might be different than a regular car?
Any insight you have into owning a diesel is appreciated. I love the gas mileage, but want to make sure I’m fully knowledgeable on what else I’d be in for.
Since you live in San Diego, I doubt that you’ll ever see #1, but if you do, don’t use it (although it probably will do no harm).
Your average motorhead can handle most diesel service, but look for a diesel specialist to handle repairs (I suggest your dealer). Diesels require less servicing than gasoline burners, so it’s worth it to find the right people to keep it running well.
Services: if someone offers to give your diesel automobile a tune-up, clock him and flee; a fuel-injected diesel needs no tuning up of any kind. Oil changes at 10,000 miles, timing belt at 80,000 miles, and occasional emissions system stuff is all that’s required.
I have a 1999 Golf TDI. This was the first year that VW produced that particular diesel engine on the Golf (maybe second year for Beetle, Jetta, etc.). I believe there were significant changes in the engine compared with previous models. That being the case, and considering that for the first two years everyone uses the dealer for service because it’s free, I’m skeptical about the knowledge and experience of your corner repair shop for much more than changing the oil.
I may be overreacting, but in my ignorance I figure better safe than sorry.
I would concur with dqa, having owned an older diesel Mercedes at one point.
I would however suggest that you should probably be able to find a garage specializing in VW, and possibly other German marques, which will have the expertise to service this vehicle. At least they will by the time it is out of warranty.
Cool. Thanks for the input. dqa, I don’t think you’re overreacting - I’d probably do the same thing! I guess that’s what happens when you don’t know diddly about the inner workings of a car.
Diesels have reputations for racking up lot’s of miles because they make a lot of power without alot of fuss (fuss being revs).
Generally:
diesels are noisier.
diesels make power with few rpms
diesels make a little more tailpipe soot
diesels are slower
For oil changes, you are probably looking at the same intervals, or close to the same as gas.
For belts, I would not be surprised if service life was longer, since the engine revs less.
Like gasoline, the grades sold in your area are geo specific. You’ll get the diesel you need w/out much thought, just as some gas owner in Maine will get their gas w/out much though to how it is different than SW gasoline at the pump. Different blends for different regions.
In re: cost more to repair, and parts availability
Is it enough of an issue to think twice about getting a diesel? My main attraction to the two TDI’s are the great gas mileage. But I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot. In other words, I may spend less on gas, but if it’s more than made up for by the cost & hassle of repairs, well, I might just stick with a regular old gas car.
The dealer may be better to answer your questions for those specific cars, but remember they want to sell you one too… so an honest, truthful answer may be difficult.
Diesels usually have a very long lifespan and are rugged (one of the reasons why Diesels are the engine of choice in big trucks and for powering the generators on locomotives) but their supporting systems and electrical system can have problems just as often as their gas engine counterparts… and very, very often they are not interchangable.
I don’t know if I personally would let parts being “not as available” as a gas engine be a determining factor. Its not like you live in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks for the input. I’m still trying to whittle my list down, and want to make sure I’m making an informed choice.
At some point I’m going to have to break down and go for a test drive, to see if I even like the feel of these cars. That might be more telling than anything else!
Well, right off the bat, a diesel has fewer parts requiring maintanence. Tune ups are almost non-existant. Fuel costs are often the biggest day to day operating cost of any vehicle, and the more miles it can rack up in a lifetime, the more valuable it is.
Considering all things, diesels are…magic word again…generally a better choice for mile per buck because…magic word again…generally they are built for the long haul. By nature, they loaf through life, wearing little on their parts, getting by on low engine rpms, saving on wear and tear.
Anecdotal evidence, but based on reality: A friend of mine did nothing to his old VW Rabbit Diesel for 98,000 thousand miles, other than about 10 oil changes. His tires were the first thing to go. He’ll admit that he should have replaced them around 78k, but the car passed inspection, so he kept them.
“Compression-ignition (diesel) direct-injection engines potentially meet regulatory requirements for emissions while maintaining their traditional advantages of reliability, high efficiency, durability, and competitive cost.” – US Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV)
Hey, Philster, thanks a bunch! I also somehow stumbled onto a TDI group, complete with message boards. So now I’ve got me some good links with all sorts of goodies.
I had an '82 VW Vanagon Diesel, and it ran great under conditions that probably would have killed any gasoline vehicle. It had about 150,000 miles on it and the oil was black as night no matter how many times I changed it. I ran the engine to maximum speed in each gear, stomping my foot to the floor and only shifting when it wouldn’t go any faster. I drove 15 miles to school with a destroyed water pump (“hmm, why is there steam coming out of the engine vents?”) but the van ran fine after it was replaced. Even after rolling the van sideways and lengthwise at 50 MPH, the engine kept running.
Besides the water pump, the only trouble I had was that it wouldn’t start in cold weather after two of my glow plugs went out. (Glow plugs preheat the combustion chamber before you start the engine, so it’s warm enough to run.) Replacing those cost about $100.
Of course, a 2003 diesel vehicle is going to be a lot different from a 1982 model.
Mr2001, interestingly enough, I found an information page that addressed the fact that oil often is black in a diesel engine. I believe it has something to do with soot (or other particulates) getting into the oil. Sounds like it’s pretty common for the oil to be black even shortly after changing it.
That’s the one thing that has me concerned - the particulate emissions. California has some pretty strict environmental laws, and supposedly sometime soon they will be enacting Tier 2 requirements. The TDI has higher levels of NOx (I think) than would be allowable.
I’m kind of worried that the car I would buy this year, while meeting current emissions standards, might not meet future standards.
Would I be “grandfathered” in if a scenario like that played out?
I dispensed with some of Philster’s contentions in the above thread. As to the others:
Absolutely. Although silver is a cool color, I might recommend a darker color if you plan to be as lazy in washing the car as I am. Also, when you do wash it, you’ll need to be thorough about the tail end before you wax it, or else you seal in the slightly yellowish film.**
Actually, the TDIs require fully synthetic oil, which quadruples the price, but as a result the manufacturer’s recommended interval is 10000 miles. Naturally, dealers and lube shops will continue to recommend your next oil change at 3000 or 5000 miles.**
I’m hoping you’re right, since I’m 3000 miles over the recommended 60,000 mile service (including belt change). The recommended belt change for automatic transmissions is at 45,000, which could not be explained by several service technicians I asked, who generally felt the belts on both should wear the same.
My 2 cents worth:
I bought a Toyota Landcruiser-Prado 4WD diesel just over 4 years ago. I love this vehicle. The diesel motor has given no repeat zero trouble in 4 years of driving every day. Beyond changing the oil and filters, service has been zilch. Only thing I would have preferred would be a turbo-diesel, but it was not available when I bought the car.
Retief
Just a brief note, someone mentioned that diesels are slow. From reading about they seem to be favoured over petrol engines in newer hot hatches. The abundance of torque makes them quite rapid especially the VW group turbo diesels. A friend is considering one, I think his company prefers them as company cars and the TDI Golf he tried was surprisingly rapid.
