U.S. Naval Institute CEO: Hit the Pirates at Their Bases in Somalia
Discuss.
You mean undefended, Third World villages? With 99% of the people there not pirates?
I’m sure you do.
Mayhap you should re-think this.
No. Of course what he means is to help stabilize the economy and government of Somolia so that rule of law will apply on shore there and not offer them a place to escape justice.
Um. Yeah.
I don’t mean anything.
I merely posted an opinion that military resources should be used, and another opinion that military resources should not be used.
I say go in and crush them. On the theory that if unchecked, eventually they will do something which is a lot more than a nuisance.
And what of Bosda’s point that most of the inhabitants are not pirates, and are basically victims of location?
Bombing the hell out of cities in countries that can’t feasibly fight back seems to be easy enough. Take out the infrastructure of the country and your job is 90% done.
Somalia has no infrastructure.
It has mud, on good days.
Dust, otherwise.
I would do what I can to minimize death, injury, and property damage to non-pirates. However, I realize that any attack is likely to result in such things.
shrug Just take out everything with wheels. If they’re inland, they’re getting there somehow.
I’m not convinced the best action is to go into mainland Somalia. We should start with some sort of international agreement or treaty that prohibits paying pirates any ransom money. Sure, a few states wouldn’t sign on but if we got most of Europe, the United States, the major Asian/Oceanic powers (India, China, Japana et cetera) then companies based out of those countries couldn’t legally pay ransom. It would be a huge deterrent to the pirates.
Killing pirates is well and good, but keep in mind that in the age of sail piracy carried swift and certain death if you were apprehended, and lots of pirates were killed outright by the navies of the world in that era, but piracy still kept happening. For some people there is always going to be the willingness to risk death for financial gain.
Oxcarts?
Mostly, they walk.
There are trucks & motor vehicles, usually so rusty they are the same color as the mud.
Most of these people cannot afford shoes.
What constitutes a base for these guys?
They seem to have a plentiful supply of AK-47s. So they are not undefended.
The newscasts say that there are currently about 260 non-Somalis being held captive for ransom in Somalia. That requires a nontrivial expenditure of resources. Which makes me dubious about the “99%” figure.
If they are well-enough organized to launch co-ordinated attacks against shipping, and collect multi-million-dollar ransoms, then they have some infrastructure.
Yeah, and how does one determine that a pirate is a pirate and not some ordinary citizen living onshore?
And just because you see a bunch of black people on a fishing boat doesn’t mean they are pirates either, so you can’t just shoot on sight, I suppose.
If you basically have to wait until a small boat of pirates intentions are clear, it’s probably already too late and the grappling hooks are already affixed.
Either arm the cargo vessels or like someone upthread said, create a multinational agreement that no ransoms will be paid anymore, not ever.
Or both.
Hmmm. Population of Somalia about 9.8 million. Number of individuals involved in piracy? Maybe a few thousand? Definitely you are right. 99% not pirates is a bad figure. More like 99.999%.
Oh yes. Destroying what infrastructure they have will be very effective.:rolleyes:
However, as that same expert continues, it does make sense to go in and pursue the ringleaders where and when you can.
Yes, that sort of makes sense.
The OP’s second link seems to say it’s just not that big of a deal right now, but also points out the effectiveness of directly military/police action – which leads me to believe they’re not so much anti-force as much as “wait until the finances justify
it”. Matter of time, maybe?
Are you kidding?
They’re poor. They’re different. They’re in a foreign country. And they’re attacking our boats, the family of the people attacking our boats, or supporting/shielding/hiding/in the same town as the people attacking our boats. Who’s gonna give a damn?! If military action takes place, you can bet the Somali bodycount is going to be nothing more than a ticker on some bleeding-heart website while a few American/Coalition soldiers become the shining heroes of international blockbuster Black Hawk Down 2.
How the hell do you bomb their enclaves without killing the innocent? How are you going to convince the rest of the world to go along? How do you determine who is a pirate and who is not?
Or are you willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds or thousands of innocents?
Face it, to fix the problem you will need boots and truckloads of money on the ground, a long-term commitment and local support. Otherwise you will just be butchers, worse than the pirates themselves.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yeah. I suppose this may end up boiling down to how much stock we put into our intelligence. If we know beyond a reasonable doubt that there are pirate strongholds/mansions/ports/hiding places, etc and exactly where they are, then I would be OK bombing them on a limited (yet effective) basis. You’re still going to have some civilian casualties but in that scenario the good could potentially outweigh the bad.
I’m in fact in total opposition to putting US ground troops into Somalia. What a nightmare that could be. And where are they going to come from anyway? Iraq?
Just to throw another complication into the mix, remember that there are more than 200 hostages being held on the beach.