Sounds like that’s the message the pirating scum should be receiving.
And do what exactly with the crew of the ship that they’re sinking?
Somalia is a tar baby that no one wants to get involved with, the cause of piracy is that they have leveraged their deep sea fishing industry to go after more lucrative fish so to speak, and its worked.
Now the dynamic has changed and the days of gentleman pirates will have come to an end, unless the somali pirates decide that the loss of several individual pirates will just be a cost of doing business.
Forget jump starting a govt, it wont be of the people and will resemble the afgan govt presently. Somalia is currently ruled by clans, so your going to have to impose a govt on them, for all intents and purposes make the geographic region of somalia a UN reservation.
Its time to see if the UN can handle some sort of responsibility, and if not , simply destroy every single boat, dingy, and rubber duckie that can put to sea and airdrop relief packages out the back of an airplane.
That place was not worth losing americans then, and its not now.
Declan
Im guessing that the crews will be fish food, his ansewer may be different. It would be the same dynamic that we use actually , kill 20 or 30 sailors so that every shipping line knows exactly what would happen if a more organized resistance began cropping up on the merchies.
Declan
It would depend on the sophistication/cleverness of the pirates in question. They could kill them gruesomely ( stupid ), or they could hold them for ransom or just let them go with a speech about victimization by the West and about how they are more noble than the evil shipping company that would have let them be killed rather than pay.
Can you explain how does American jurisdiction extend to ships registered in other countries? (Answer: It doesn’t)
In the case of American-flagged vessels, will they be required to carry armed security no matter their size? No matter how small the ship? Even a small pleasure boat? Do you realize this is not possible? And who will pay for this?
What kind of level of fighting force would it be? Because they would have to carry some heavy armaments. What will you do when these ships are forbidden from entering foreign ports?
Are you beginning to realize that your “idea” needs rethinking?
You do realize that the number of ships registered in America is miniscule precisely because America requires much more thatn other countries do. Do you realize that the practical effect of this would be that America would lose the few ships that are still registered there?
Why don’t you just propose that America shut the door and do not let any Americans out nor foreigners in? That might resolve something and it makes about as much sense as what you propose.
Because whenever a viable government emerges it is Islamist and America helps overthrow it? America only accepts a pro-American government there which is like asking for apples from an oak tree. You ain’t gonna get it.
What makes all these radical solutions so laughable is that America is badly losing the war on drugs which is taking place on American streets. You can’t control your own streets and you are going to control Somalia’s? Good luck with that.
I can imagine the same solution being applid in America: drug selling at the street corner: just bomb them and kill everyone. A neighborhood has a drug problem? Just destroy it and kill everyone. Yeah, right.
Again, if you can’t control what happens in your own streets how are you going to control what goes on half way around the world?
The only way to achieve anything is to help create an efective government in Somalia but America has been actively doing the opposity as it has funded the guerrillas who were against the government. What is happening now is a direct result of that.
If you kill enough people the piracy would definitely stop.
Keep in mind that our attack on the Barbary Pirates didn’t decisively put an end to their piracy (it lead to increased safety for American ships, and after the second expedition it lead to us no longer paying tribute to them in 1815.) It was just one in a long line of raids and attacks on the North African pirate-states. European states had been doing that for years, they had sacked, pillaged, bombarded the Barbary coast many times. Killing thousands, the Barbary pirates also did the same to European coastlines. It wasn’t until France invaded, conquered, and held Algiers that the Barbary pirates were ever stopped. In the process the French killed (or their invasion caused, however you wish to parse it) the deaths of something like 800,000 people and reduced the Algierian population by one third. After that, yes, the Barbary Pirates became nothing more than a story in the history books. (It’s worth noting that was just the beginning of France’s political problems with Algiers.)
That’s probably roughly what would have to happen to Somalia, who wants to rule Somalia as an overseas territory for 170 years or so? I don’t expect any volunteers.
Destroy houses, boats, kill all the oxen and chickens and everything else.
No matter what, I guarantee you that you can find a way to make life ten times more difficult for the locals just via the process of being a destructive bully.
Are you saying the French beat the Barbary pirates and not the USMC? I’ll have to spread this information on rightwing loony boards.
If you kill enough people all of humanity’s problems could be solved.
I like that approach, how about you start solving your own problems at home first. :dubious:
What is up with some of you people?
To be fair, I think he is saying that trying to stop the piracy by military force would require a massacre of comparable magnitude, and/or occupying Somalia. He said over inthis thread ( post 18 ) :
My apologies if I misinterpreted his post. There are so many Rambos here that it’s becoming increasingly hard to tell people apart.
Arm the crews and let them choose how to handle it. If on a particular day, they are feeling froggy and want to shoot it out with the pirates, they can. If on another day, they don’t feel like risking their lives for The Company’s ship and cargo, there is nothing stopping them from surrendering without resistance. If the uncertainty about what to expect makes piracy more stressful, that’s as may be.
No argument here. I’m just looking for the most peaceful way to do it. No friendly ports would make their lives hella stressful no?
Hmm if that’s the case I could see why a Somali government might not be feasible. How are these clans structured? Could the country be structured by clan territories? Is it already? Or are the clans structured differently or mixed up in the same regions?
Could the clans be held responsible for controlling the pirates since they’re the defacto government? I say this because I bet the clans have possessions they really don’t want leveled with cruise missiles. The threat of which could get them to control the pirate problem. How viable would that be?
Hmm. Well that’s possible I don’t deny America would do something like that. Would America be willing to accept an Islamist government in exchange for an end to piracy though?
An islamist government will most certainly end the piracy problem, in fact they did before. Piracy is against the Muslim religion and they punished the pirates with death. It was after they were outed that this problem got out of control.
And Scumpup, in case you missed the multiple explanations in this and other threads: arming the crew will not happen. Forget it.
How many more people will come up with this stupid idea?
Your own post you to which linked certainly contains a fair few assertions. Maybe if you’d included a cite for a single one of them, I’d find you more convincing. Maybe you are an expert on maritime matters IRL; but I have no way of knowing that and suspect that isn’t likely the case.
I think it’s fair to say some of those assertions don’t really need cites. Let’s take a single one, “Most countries will not allow a ship with arms to enter their ports.”
Just as our Coast Guard wouldn’t appreciate some foreign battleship bristling with arms pulling into the Long Island sound, I doubt any other port city wants an armed crew docking in their port. Why? Because then we wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a honest, armed crew from a weapons smuggler, or a hostile force. Even if you ignore all the other assertions, how do you get around this one?
How did we go from an armed crew to a “battleship bristling with arms?”