You are correct about the names. I was wrong.
(Hey, Trumpies! See how easy that was?)
I think that really is a big part of it. Lots of it is tribalism, group dynamic, belonging, identity, or whatever other term is used to describe it. For somebody to admit they were wrong about Trump breaks their identity, and ostracizes them from their group. Those are extremely difficult things for a human to voluntarily do.
So when shown actual facts about horrible things Trump has done and supports, they have a choice, admit they were wrong, leave their group, break with their friends and everything they’ve believed for the last 6+ years, or just tell you that you’re lying.
Of course, you also have the people that like the racism and fascism, “the cruelty is the point.”
My feeling is that back in 2016 anybody voting for Trump fell into one of three groups:
- too uninformed to see the racism and fascism on display
- notice the racism and fascism, and aren’t a big fan, but don’t consider them a deal breaker (many of these people will deny the racism and fascism, because that’s easier than admitting they’re supporting it)
- like the racism and fascism
It’s group 2 that really bothers me. If there was a candidate who supported all of the radical leftist stuff I want, but also thought it was fun to molest people, or that people with dark skin should not be allowed into the country, they definitely would not get my vote. Those would be deal breaker opinions, regardless of anything else.
The questions I ask are, does this person want what is best for the country and world, and we just disagree about how to achieve it; do we have an disagreement about what is actually best, but intentions are at least in the right place; or does this person not actually care about any of that, and just wants what is best for themselves or their group?
Problem is, a lot of GOP voters can no longer distinguish “what is best for themselves or their group” from “what is best for the country and world.” They’ve become so insular and tunnel-visioned that they can’t even allow the possibility that whatever benefits them is not the best possible thing, period – or that something that inconveniences them might actually be better for the majority of others (and screw them, anyway).
Quite. These are the people who say “as long as he gets me what I want on X, Y, Z, I don’t care about what else”. They are too convinced that their issue X, Y, Z is The Only Issue That Matters. Cut my taxes, crack down on the scary other people, and everything else is “eh, whatevs”.
This however is how we wind up with the “Jesus Guns Babies” candidate from this last primary. Nothing on how she’ll make life better for you. Not about jobs, not lower crime, not a chicken in every pot… just “Jesus Guns Babies”.
It’s worse than that. They can’t distinguish “What is worst for my political enemies” from “what is best for themselves, their party, the county, or the world.”
They will happily cut off their nose to spite their face, and then blame the Democrats for the blood everywhere.
Yeah, that too – but I was just responding to @echoreply’s questions about people they meet, and they didn’t offer up “Is this person just a deluded sociopath?”
Well put.
Really, the only way an intelligent person who is paying any attention to the world around em would completely miss birtherism and Trump’s pivotal role in keeping it alive would be to actively choose to be uninformed.
I just don’t buy at all that a person of reasonable intelligence couldn’t be expected to be aware of Trump’s role. He was not a “random celebrity spouting political opinions.” He was being incessantly covered, and much of that coverage was by the very Fox News that his later voters were glued to.
No significant proportion of Trump supporters went into it being ignorant of his views. They went into it agreeing with his views. Indeed, he continuously adjusted his opinions based on exactly what appealed to them most. Trump would have said a lot less fewer racist things if his supporters didn’t love it so much when he said racist things.
Team, I think this is enough. There is nothing wrong with 2012-2015 Eonwe not knowing about birtherism or Trump’s role in it. It’s a big fucking world. I myself ignored the controversy, thinking it was nothing. And arguments of “I know your mind better than you do” are better suited for the idiots of Facebook, not here.
My .
.
I was certainly aware that he was pushing birtherism at one point, but I thought he’d dropped it long before the campaign (when the long form birth certificate was provided) and didn’t even think about it by election time.
Frankly there were many other issues I was more concerned about, such as wanting to ban Muslims from entering the country,
ObThat:
Does anybody know if Trump’s crack team of investigators (I think it’s the same bunch who relentlessly followed Butch and Sundance) ever returned from Hawaii ?
Weren’t they going to get to the bottom of the Birther thing ??
Or are they still waiting patiently there for payment from Trump ?
I should have applied. DAMMIT. I should have applied.
Quibbling over that one particular bit of information is beside the point anyway. So much about Trump had been revealed in such great volume by Election Day 2016 mostly by Trump himself over and over again that no significant proportion of voters can be let off with the excuse “how were we supposed to know?”
I’ve been too damned tired to jump in on this, but … thanks.
It’s definitely one of my favorite things about the Dope, but …
13,137 angels can dance on the head of a pin.
There. That oughta’ do it (said no serious Doper ever).
Waltz or Macarena?
I didn’t know this was going to turn into a Pepperidge Farm debate.
JFTR: Milano, but not by much.
Given how often we are to jump in and proclaim our expertise, someone admitting ignorance of something in the past is a rare act of courage 'round these here parts. We should, at least, accept these precious 
s of honesty at face value. 
Or worse yet, from Newsmax or OANN.
The Lambada. Only the Lambada.
If it makes you feel better I’m more than happy to call myself a dumbass.
My hero! 