The Crown; season 4

Cafe Society
,
41

Oh, I’m not denying Diana was ill treated. It’s just not interesting to watch scene after scene of an irredeemable asshole and the beautiful, put-upon young woman (good lord, Emma Corrin is beautiful) who seems blameless. I mean, hell, maybe it’s 100 percent true, but it was kind of a drag to watch.

Piling on Charles being psychotically jealous of her popularity really detracted from the story, to be honest; that could have been entirely left out. In one scene, Anne flat out tells her mother that Charles and Diana are hopelessly incompatible; what we should have seen was more of the incompatibility (rather than Anne TELLING us, though that scene should remain in; if you have that scene later it’s useful to demonstrate Anne’s perceptiveness and to explain how Her Majesty hears it.) That is a more interested aspect of the story than just “Charles throws a screaming tantrum when Diana gets attention,” and can be played with more subtlety.

I’m not sure that’s an objectively defensible position; I think that on average, they’re as nice as anyone would be under the circumstances. Andrew is a sex predator, I guess, but you can’t pin that on anyone but him.

I am not the first person to point this out, but while people endlessly lionize Diana for the charity work she did, Princess Anne has been doing twice as much her whole life and no one seems to notice because she’s not as pretty.

42

I bet it was even more of a drag to go through. The thing with Diana was that the power imbalance was insanely huge–on one side you have hundreds of years of history and incalculable wealth and power that produced a remarkable level of entitlement and on the other side you have a pretty teenager with massively ambitious parents. There just isn’t a way to present this story that isn’t going to look like a huge pileon, because it was. Diana had no power, no leverage, nothing, and the depths the Royal Family were willing to go to to paint her as crazy and incompetent to parent her children were nothing short of monstrous. The British royal family is incredibly observed, everything they do is watched by servants and subjects and protection agents and the only thing that keeps the stories from getting out is loyalty–and they lost a lot of that due to their shabby treatment of the People’s Princess. Brought it on themselves, as most of their problems have been.

As for charity work, Diana was willing to sit and spend time with AIDS patients at a time when nobody knew for sure how it was transmitted–for all anyone knew, she was flirting with death every time she held a person’s hand and yet she did that without hesitation. She didn’t just write a check, she gave of herself and that’s why she’s remembered with such great love.

43

Well, yeah, I bet it was, but we’re talking about a TV show. This isn’t some kind of contest between who’s having less fun, viewers of “The Crown” or Diana. It’s on them to present this story in an entertaining way.

44

Well, I enjoyed it so there you go. I think Charles had it coming to have the world see how poorly he managed his marriage and how much of a petulant child he could be. I had a much rougher time dealing with Gillian Anderson’s Iron Lady–I hated the original so much that it’s been a trial watching the eps with her in it because I love Gillian but she’s just too damned good at channeling that horrifying old harridan and I have to go have a lie down after every episode.

45

Amusingly in this discussion, I found having a lot of sympathy for Charles this season. Margaret hit it on the nose before the wedding (obviously since similarly she was prevented from marrying the person she loved) and the Queen basically told him you don’t love her, but that’s ok, because maybe you’ll respect her one day. Considering everyone else seemed to be treating it as a political marriage, I can see Charles do so as well.

46

I really enjoyed the Michael Fagin episode, and on reflection I think it was because he was a sympathetic character! There’s no-one else I have ‘rooted for’ in the whole series.
I wondered as I watched it how that episode would play in the US
'You fucking twat!"
“YOU fucking twat!”

MiM

47

I agree, the Fagin episode was very well done, the acting very good and story revealing something of his troubled life. They took some artistic and with the facts. He is still around and met the writers. He claims he was off his head on magic mushrooms during most of that period. The Queen did not engage him in much regal chat, but made a very quick exit to find safety. But then, that would not be much of a story. I liked his professional assessment of the poor standard of maintenance of some the interior decoration at Buckingham Palace. It was a well written and acted.

I find it curious how very few of the hundreds of staff of the royal household rarely get any sort of speaking role, just a couple of senior courtiers giving diplomatic advice and heading off scandals. All the rest are anonymous extras, who never even seem talk to each other. I am sure there is a lot of material that could have been used.

48

Just finished S4 and enjoyed it - interesting stories, a great cast and the usual very high production values - although dear God, it was uncomfortable at times. The closer the show gets to the present day, the less I think the actual Royal Family is going to like it.

The show with the two institutionalized elderly retarded cousins was heartbreaking. Both my wife and I thought, if Princess Margaret wanted something important to do to bring some freakin’ meaning to her life, why not make it her mission to see that they were well cared-for from then on? But after berating her mom for being heartless, she seems to have just dropped it, if the show is to be believed.

Gillian Anderson’s portrayal of Thatcher came dangerously close to parody now and then, but overall I’d say she nailed it.

Loved the Queen’s berating Charles in the final episode for being a whiny, pampered, entitled git who’s better off than 99.999% of humanity, if he could only look around and see it. Just what he needed to hear, and tough love, of a sort.

Prince Philip was positively menacing in that one-on-one meeting with Diana in her bedroom - I wondered if that was a sly nod to the Al-Fayed family, which has long (utterly implausibly IMHO) blamed him for the accident which killed her. Especially since they had bonded on their Balmoral hunting trip early on, that was a memorable scene.

Ha - love it! “Oh, dear…”

Yes. When Charles peevishly said that she was just showing off and that any of the Royal Family might hugged an AIDS-infected kid, I hoped she would shoot back, “Yes, but none of you have, have you?”

Yes, I liked the Fagin episode too. The contrast between life in Buck House and life in his housing project couldn’t have been sharper.

49

Yes, I’m pretty sure they’d enjoy the First Season. That is, except Phillip. By the end of Season 4, the only one I have much respect for is Anne (ironically, the one who’s kept the lowest profile).

50

My parents met Anne a few times - they said she was very ‘no nonsense’, and a bit gruff, not many airs and graces but well respected by those that know her well. Not far off how she’s depicted.

They also met Prince Charles a few times and know some of his former staff - he was quite charming to talk to, but his staff didn’t like him much and said he treated Diana horribly.

They met The Queen a couple of times, said she has a very dry sense of humour.

(We’re not posh or anything, but my Dad made equestrian clothing - if you want to meet a royal, get into horses!).

51

Partway through S4 just before wedding. Way way way too much Chuck and Di. Maybe it’s good for ratings but I’d like to see more about the others.

52

Yes - mentioned here:

53

There’s a tale that at one of her lunches (for a mixed variety of people who do assorted interesting and important things) a prominent (and rather self-righteous) trade union leader had some trouble with a roast potato that got away from his fork and skidded off on to the floor. A corgi waddled up, sniffed at it and waddled away.

“Not your day, is it, Mr. X?” said HM.

(And the story I’ve read here about her response to people’s mobile phones going off - “It might be someone important” - suggests she might have been an avid watcher of Hyacinth Bucket).

54

I agree with you, but then the 80s and the royals certainly felt like the Charles and Di show at the time.

55

Yeah I am not particularly interested in the Charles and Diana saga myself and inevitably that was the focus of this season. I wished they had at least devoted a full episode to Thatcher’s downfall instead of mixing it with yet more Charles/Di.

I am looking forward to the next season. I think The Queen is one of the great political films and it will be fascinating to watch the same events covered in The Crown.

56

Yes, we’re holding off on watching Helen Mirren in The Queen with our teenage sons until The Crown has gotten closer to those events. But as a change of pace until then, we may try the original British House of Cards, which was set just after Thatcher left office.

I would like to have seen more on the Falklands War in The Crown, BTW, especially on Prince Andrew’s role in it and his mother’s concern for his safety (even this show, which emphasizes her emotional distance from her children, would’ve been willing to show that, I expect).

57
58

You have to wonder if the fact that Andrew isn’t exactly a sympathetic figure at present might have had something to do with that.

59

Yeah, probably.

60

Oh, House of Cards is fantastic - vastly better and darker than the Kevin Spacey remake (albeit with early 90s production values). But it’s fictional, so don’t expect any references to Thatcher and the gang.

If you’re interested generally in British political drama based on real events, I can recommend The Deal (about the pact that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown came to before they were in power, gifting the Labour Leadership to Blair), and Brexit:The Uncivil War, starring Benedict Cumberbatch as Dominic Cummings, the strategist behind the Brexit campaign.