Satan, I’ve heard all that before.
We’ll get you yet.
Almost forgot. . .
You’re not really trying to tell me that Fugazi plays stadiums, now are you?
Life is short. Make fun of it.
Just out of curiousity Satan, (and I’m not being pissy, I honestly want to know), what DO you listen to?
Melatonin, you REALLY don’t need me to reiterate my point, do you? sigh The point is that for as many fans that the Dead had, they didn’t really seem to cut them any slack (expensive ticket prices, playing in shitty arenas etc). IMO, the Dead came off as a band that projected love and harmony and crap but in real life probably voted Republican.
I think I’ll start a John Coltrane is God thread…
I really need to object to the comparisons that are made between Phish and the Dead. There are many important differences between the two bands, but the most important is this: the members of Phish are extremely talented musicians, the Dead never were. Also, I think pldenison is the first person I have ever heard refer to the DMB as a “jam” band. I’ve seen them live twice. The first time I saw them, it was great, the second time, it was pretty bad, because they did try to jam, and they’re no damn good at it. Anyway, all that being said, as much as I love Phish, I would never, ever, EVER go to one of their shows.
Dig this:
From the Onion
Phish Collapses Onstage http://www.theonion.com/onion3015/phishcollapse.html
I was always of the opinion that a Dead show was very much about capitalism. People sold stuff of every description everywhere. Personally, I didn’t ever really much buy into the political/touchy-feely/caring and sharing that the Dead was supposedly about. For me, it was always about the music and the party. It was just fun – about as much fun as I ever had.
I also found that a ticket to a Dead show cost about the same as any other big name rock concert. Which is about what a ticket to an NFL game or a touring Broadway show goes for. Kind of expensive, but not abnormally so.
I’m sorry you didn’t have fun at the show(s) you went to.
Plunging like stones from a slingshot on Mars.
Ahh, John coltrane. Now I gotta go home and dig out all my old Coltrane and Miles Davis albums. I guess I better find the Thelonius Monk too. Maybe even some Oscar Peterson.
One complete set of morals for sale to highest bidder, new in box.
I would be interested in hearing what the members of Phish have to say about the Dead’s musical abilities. Needless to say, I do not share your evaluation. What do you base this on?
Oooh oooh!!! Monk, Trane and Miles! Outta site. Outta siiiiight.
I had plenty of friends, college roommates, acquaintences, etc… who listened to the Dead. I listened to them too and liked a lot of their stuff (especially the older stuff with Pigpen). However, after '89 they steadily went downhill with a few notable shows as exceptions. I used to be much more pro-Dead until one show at RFK. It was grey and miserable, I had bought a 2nd set of tickets (the first ones sold to me were fakes and they checked em at the time), and couldn’t get on the floor. I wound up losing my friends, buying a very flat beer that instantly gave a headache, and sitting down to enjoy the show. This was hard to do as Jerry started to forget lyrics, his playing was half-assed at best, and they had to do a 40 minute Darkstar/drums solo to cover for his half-assing. I left very depressed.
I’ve seen a few good shows. I’ve also heard bootlegs of excellent shows but most were from a time period where I wasn’t able to see em.
“The Dead came off as a band that projected love and harmony and crap…”
I don’t even know what to make of this.
Hey, you play a hundred shows a year, there are gonna be some duds. Listening for Jerry’s ahem lyrical adjustments was part of the fun, in a way. And the Darkstar/Drums thing they did EVERY show.
That being said, I agree with you – many of the best tapes I’ve heard are from the early '70s.
I’m gonna assume you were responding to me, Frankd6 and say this: okay, maybe that was a little harsh. It is my opinion that Phish are more technical able and talented musicians than the Dead, strictly in the sense of playing the instruments. But, I am not a music expert, obviously. This is just my inherantly subjective opinion.
Sasami - It is a very mis-informed opinion to say that the members of the Dead are not musically talented. You obviously know not of what you speak. That, I am sure, is your loss.
As for Phish being so much more talented than the Dead, that’s a gross exageration. Aside from the general jamming, the two bands are not all that alike. The fact that so many Deadheads are now Phisheads I think has more to do with the jamming aspect, the drug aspect, and with Phish’s close relationship with their fans, much like the Dead were in the early years. Mike Gordon, the bass player from Phish, names Phil Lesh, the bass player of the Dead, as his biggest influence. The two jammed together at Shoreline a few weeks ago, and you could see the admiration on Mike’s face as the two of them rocked out. Phish does not like being associated as a Dead rip-off band (which they clearly are not, but they were called that in the early years), but the members of Phish have a deep respect for the Dead and a deep respect for the musically abilities of the members of the Dead.
As for the Dead being peace/love/hugs-all-around, the band itself never really promoted that kind of stuff. I think the Deadhead community are the ones that were pushing that stuff and trying to keep the sixties “ideals” alive. The band had no problem making money, and never said otherwise (Although the individuals didn’t make anything close to what you probably think they made. The whole thing was very expensive to keep going, especially after the mid-seventies). As they’ve said over and over, they were all about music (with a small bit of environmental and educational politics thrown in), and if the fans wanted to wear flowers and peace signs and talk about “ending the capitalistic machine”, then that was their business. But it wasn’t pushed by the Dead.
And Sasami, as for that link to The Onion, you actually believe that? A $45 million dollar ventilation system, owned by a medium-sized rock band? God lord! Please tell me you don’t take that article seriously.
“What I wonder is why people are so afraid of everybody coming up with their own reality on their own terms.” - Jerry Garcia
As far as the DEAD being greedy capitalists–while tickets did get pricey, how many other bands allow all their shows to be taped. If the DEAD really wanted to stick to their fans, why allow all the bootlegging?
Uh-oh, I see us plummeting to the depths of Great Debates. We will continue sinking as long as people keep using the words ‘Phish’ and “The Dead” in the same sentence.
Repeat after me, guys:
“To- MAY- to.”
Okay, good. Now:
“To- MAH- to.”
I hope everybody feels better, because that is as close as we’ll ever come to resolving this one.
I don’t hate Phish. I don’t like them as much as the Dead, but, hey ‘tomato.’ One of the things I’ve noticed in listening to some of their music is that they’re a lot “wierder” than the Dead. I heard a tape on which someone was playing, I believe, a vacuum tube of some sort. They’ve done covers of Prince songs, which one must respect (or reject) in it’s own right.
With the Dead, however zany it got, however far off into his own melody any individual got, you could always give your ears a step back and it would all come together again as one incredible, vast but tight, ultimately simultaneously both variegated and integrated melody.
Now, maybe that’s something Phish can do , too. Hell, I would be quite happy to go check out a Phish show. Even tried a few times. But PHISH did not give me free tickets to their concert, now did they?
Life is short. Make fun of it.
Melatonin said: “But PHISH did not give me free tickets to their concert, now did they?”
Maybe not to you, but I’ve seen many miracle tickets given away at Phish shows, and I’ve heard about the members of Phish walking around the parking lots before shows, talking to fans and handing out tickets, backstage passes and other stuff like that.
But I do agree with you, the two groups should not be considered the same. The music is quite different, and I think most real fans of either group know this. I love both bands for different reasons, and would never judge one based on the other.
Dirty Devil’s post just made me realize that Phish actually gets it name from PHIl leSH. 
I wish I was a headlight on a northbound train…
Count me as having strongly mixed feelings on this one. Saw them only once (at the Omni in Atlanta, '88…or was it '89?) and it was a cosmic experience. My judgement may have been somewhat impaired, however. Beer, weed, and IV Ecstacy on the way in, then munched on psilocybins like they were popcorn
throughout the show.
The Dead were a bunch of nice guys who did so-so music with a lot of heart and enthusiasm. They were interesting, but not as interesting as the whole DeadHead phenomenon. What I never understood was the fanatical devotion of the followers, who acted as if The Dead were It. A few of their songs were quite endearing and a lot of fun. But let’s face it: they were always Grateful, sometimes *Grating, * but never Great.
Frankd6:
To be honest, what I don’t listen to would be a shorter list. Using the Grateful Dead as a reference, here are the five groups alphabetically in either direction from that point in my CD rack:
GOODIE MOB - Hip-hop
GOO GOO DOLLS - Alterna-pop who used to be The Replacements Jr. but sold out to the man now
GOREFEST - Hollandaise Death Metal
GOVERNMENT MULE - All Deadheads should know… Warren Haynes new project.
GRAPES OF WRATH - Canadian (I nelieve) poppy alternative fare before poppy alternative fare sold any records.
GRAVE DIGGER - Seminal German thrash heroes from the mid '80s.
GRAVITY KILLS - Recent industrial-esque guitar-heavy stuff.
THE GREAT KAT - Unintentionally hilarious insane violin-prodigy-turned hyper-speed-meta–guitartist. I can’t do it justice…
GREAT WHITE - Well, the disc was free…
GREEN - Quirky pop.
Does this help at all?
Satan: I LOVE GOREFEST!! I can’t believe anyone else has that CD. My favorite line of one of their songs: “I see your face, and it’s a dead one”. LOL. Great stuff!