When the SS checks stop coming I fear Obama will take the blame. What the Republicans have in spades is the ability to drum up support, Democrats worry too much about nuance which has no place in the bugle calls of battle.
Tax cuts have a mildly stimulative effect, when they are targeted at the “spending” class. Which is most of us. Tax cuts are just about the only stimulus program the tighty righty would accept, without daubing themselves with shit and setting their hair on fire. And they wouldn’t even accept that unless the cuts for the rich were included.
In a consumer economy, the answer to our problem is to encourage spending, which we cannot do without putting money into people’s hands. Employ them. Borrow the money, and employ them. This, as you probably know, is heresy for our rightarded brethren. Even, it appears, to certain persons of an impeccably non-partisan and objective viewpoint.
Why aren’t the rich OK with tax increases if they’ve had historically low tax rates and booming wealth in recent years? Is soaking the rich going to help much at all?
It’ll help a Hell of a lot more than soaking the poor.
No one wants to “Soak the rich”. It’s not like they wanted to raise the highest marginal rate from 35% to 70%, they wanted to raise the MARGINAL rate from 35% to 39.6%, which is what it happened to be under Reagan.
Because nobody wants their taxes to go up, at least not the majority. They do tend to want other peoples taxes to go up.
Returning the top two tax rates to their Clinton-era levels would generate somewhere between $650 billion and $1 trillion in additional revenue over the next 10 years, all else being the same. Certainly not enough to balance the budget, but not a drop in the bucket either.
But I mean what do they expect? How can they expect everyone else to bear the brunt even though things like the Bush Tax Cuts + the wars which have already burdened the middle class? I mean, even student loans have gotten really vicious.
If they keep putting pressure on everyone else, how can such an economy benefit the rich anyone if nobody can spend?
Well, now, some of us would. Or, at the very least, dampen them somewhat.
People act in their personal self interests, not societal self interest. Anyone who pays the top marginal rate who argues it should be increased (I’m in this position) is doing so because we feel in the long run that our self interests and society’s interests are aligned. Essentially I feel a 4.5% increase on the small portion of my income taxed at the top marginal rate is still better for me personally than living in a country that goes bankrupt.
My situation isn’t the same as everyone else’s, my business relies on economic growth and only a small portion of my pay is taxed at the top rate. A Fortune 500 CEO earns a lot more than I do, and by and large he will bring home millions annually even if the economy sucks and the company is doing poorly. CEOs are usually not hurt personally when there is an economy wide problem. The absolute worst case scenario for them is they get fired and still receive a massive contract layout.
So part of it are the individuals who have vast assets and income who do not feel either rely on the economy as a whole doing well. That is just an example of the “mindset” in reality of course a CEO usually receives a few hundred thousand in salary and $5m+ in alternative forms of compensation that are only taxed at the 15% capital gains rate…the reality everyone ignores every time I bring it up is the marginal income tax is irrelevant for the top 1%ers, their income is mostly not earned income.
Another common argument is that the top 1% of warmers by AGI pay more in taxes than the bottom 50% combined. So even guys like Buffet who only pay an 18% rate pays more in absolute terms than thousands of low income earners combined. This is a true point but not especially relevant…yes a rich man pays dozens of times the amount a poor man pays…but taxes aren’t about absolute values and the rich man has many times the earnings and assets.
Today we hear the John B. has brought in the Balanced Budget Amendment in order to pull a few more crazies into the mix. Joy.
On the face of it, not that bad an idea, until you think about it. I mean, if you already have a balanced budget, not so bad. But the kicker is the super-majority stipulation, that taxes could not be raised without a 2/3 majority of both Houses to enact. That is incredibly, awesomely stupid.
But more to the point, it is an effort by what amounts to a minority to have their viewpoint permanently etched in stone, to tie the hands of any future legislative body to the agenda of a current body, and a minority of that body to boot. If the people elect a body that is 60% Democrat and that body sees a need to raise taxes, then the will of the people can be thwarted by the cold, dead hand of previous legislators. And that’s just plain wrong.
Especially since the BBA requires 2/3’s vote approval in the House to pass per the US Constitution (Article V). Can someone explain to me how this is going to work?
And cut some Pell Grants. Cause if there’s one thing Tea Partiers hate more than taxes it’s college-educated elitists.
Obviously the point is not to pass a BBA - that’s never going to happen. It’s just another thing they can cut out in the final compromise. Unfortunately, Boehner has already been revealed unable to get his caucus to vote on that compromise, so it’ll end up closer to Reid’s bill than Boehner’s, most likely, in order to get House Dems on board.
Looks like Boehner is moving the bill to the right by adding a BBA vote. IMO this is probably enough to win the vote later tonight, so Boehner saves a little face. But note the following:
Boehner moves the goalposts again in a desperate effort to save his speakership by appeasing the crazies in his caucus. There is no way a BBA–which requires 2/3 of both the House and Senate–would ever make it out of his own House, let alone the Senate.
If Boehner’s bill passes this evening, the Senate will take it up (the GOP would squalk if Reid didn’t present it to the floor). I believe through the amending process (assume Reid amends Boehner’s bill to match whatever compromise he and McConnell will hatch) and cloture it will take at least 30 hours to get a vote and send it back to the House. The Monday morning House roll-call should be a thrill…
it isn’t. i have no clue of where these people who think that you snap your fingers and boom! you get an amendment learned history or went to school.
seriously, graduating high schoolers should have to pass the citizens test they give to people who want to become u s citizens.
it takes a 2/3rd vote for both, repeat BOTH houses of congress. then you give it a time limit for the state legislatures to ratify, 3/4ths of them.
historically the road to an amendment has been long and horrible. it is very, very, rare. the last amendment that had a sliver of a chance was the equal rights amendment. that went really, really well (snarky voice).
some of these daft gits seem to think if it passes, viola! it is an amendment. they would be out of office before the states get it.
We have had a new Amendment since the failure or ERA, Amendment 27 Limiting Congressional Pay, ratified in 1993.
And that was only 203 years after it passed Congress! See, it can happen that fast!
Let me clarify–does this mean that the BBA is only a proposal that it will be introduced on the floor only to be voted on later? Or, are they assuming they’ll get the 2/3rd’s vote to pass the Amendment to the USCon on Monday? I think it’s the former, right?
As I understand, Boehner’s “new and improved” bill would require the BBA to be sent to the states (i.e., pass both houses with 2/3 majority) before the second debt ceiling increase would happen. This is in addition to the other stipulations put on that second tranche - the “new and improved” debt committees report being voted on being one of them.
not the way they are talking. one fellow who was on cnn seemed to think it would sail through and go to the states in just a few days.(oops, this was in response to user hostile.)
thank you gangster octopus, i had forgotten about that one.
if we go by that precident, the daft gits will be out of office and off this mortal coil. that is a bit of a relief.
Plus, those on the far right of the spectrum (cough Tea party cough) an amazing ability to lie in egregious ways, and have their supporters eagerly lap it up. I mean, there were actual Federal politicians questioning Obama’s birthplace for God’s sake!
Well, they either lie or they have an outrageous lack of knowledge about fundamental issues, but either way.
I would not be at all surprised to read in a few months that 35% of the American public is absolutely convinced that Obama himself personally refused to raise the debt ceiling, because he wanted to destroy the US economy for his muslim overlords.