For my own sanity, I am not going anywhere near the hardcore political blogs (or any at all, for that matter, at least not for the foreseeable future), but I’m sure the liberal ones, at least, are howling over this deal as I understand it. I’m sure there are all sorts of promises of staying home in '12 and primarying and so on.
OTOH, I’ve seen at least one post in GD that links to a Free Republic thread in which THEY aren’t very happy either. Plus, I’ve always been a little skeptical that most political blogs really represent a significant chunk of the voting population at large.
So what significant impact, if any, do you think this whole shebang, both the process and the aftermath, will have two Novembers from now? How much of Obama’s voting public are gonna withhold support just because of this? How hard will this be, if at all, on the Republican nominee? Feel free to address any other questions that are obvious/interesting.
I dunno. Dems would be fools to stay home from the polls and give the Tea Party loons more power in congress.
I’m thinking this will just contribute to the disintegration of the Republican party and it’s possible split into two parties; The Conservative-Moderate coalition, and the Tea Party Republicans, who despite probably having fair numbers in Congress, aren’t going to have enough to shove their agenda down anyone’s throats. Refuse to compromise? Good, sit down over there, cast your ‘no’ vote and watch your faction be marginalized into powerlessness.
Of course, that could just be wishful thinking on my part.
If he’s smart, Obama will make plenty of hay out of the fact that he offered them exactly what they claimed to want, multiple times, and they still didn’t take it. None of the Republican plans, nor the plan that got passed, had nearly as much deficit reduction as either of the plans Obama offered, and that reduction was mostly in the form of spending cuts.
In a reality-based universe this would make sense. But we seem to have been assumed bodily into a universe in which a significant percentage of the population continue to believe that Obama has perpetrated The Biggest Tax Increase in History™, despite the fact that their taxes have most likely been reduced — in some cases, significantly.
Foolish or not, I certainly hear quite few talking about that or voting for a protest candidate. They feel that there’s no difference between the parties, or that Obama and the Democrats are so weak that they don’t matter. A lot seem to feel that nothing they do, nothing they vote for makes any difference so they might as well not bother or just make a symbolic protest vote. They feel that if they vote Democrats into office, they’ll be totally ignored the moment the election is over and the right wing agenda will roll on regardless.
There is a huge difference between the parties in philosophy. Obama apparently felt the deal could not be made acting as an intelligent adult. He had to give the baggers their cookies. They would have let the economy default and the economy might have crashed.
Around the world , economists were frightened by the silly childish arguments that could have crippled the whole world just like the bankers did. The baggers should be voted out and ridiculed.
Bottom line: Obama caved. He got nothing from this and the Republicans have once again backed him down on the revenue issue. No revenue means no spending. No spending means stagnant economy. I agree with Krugman: not spending during a recession is like bleeding a patient when he is dying. The economy will continue to flounder and unemployment will continue to be high, and Obama will take the blame for it. I’m beginning to think that his re-election chances are not looking good.
The “super committee” is a fucking joke and will end up as a mini-me of the entire Congress: squabbling, grandstanding, stonewalling, blackmailing, and ultimately accomplishing nothing. If the Republicans take over the presidency and are able to put more asses in the senate, I would look for a total collapse of our economy (if not our country) within another four years. Their agenda has veered completely off the tracks of good governance, and they seem to actually believe in principles that have been proven not only wrong, but catastrophic over and over again.
You mean other than unemployment, a still-foundering economy, health care, and Libya? There is plenty of ammunition, and now they can add wishy-washy to the list.
I mentioned this in the other thread about Obama -
Something else that happened today is that Obama issued an executive order stating that insurers must provide birth control to women without charging a co-pay. Also, they must provide breast pumps for nursing mothers and screening for cervical cancer prevention. I think this order was timed specifically to remind us progressives that Obama has a lot of stuff coming down the line, like health care changes, and if we want that stuff to happen we need to keep supporting him. At least that’s how it looks to me.
This debt bill is another thing Obama can point to as a political win, even if the specifics aren’t that great. Plus Obama is already signalling that if he’s reelected, he’ll consider ending the Bush tax cuts as part of further debt reduction - but that won’t happen if he’s not elected.
I think Obama got the deal he wanted here, but I think he’s playing a very long game. We’ll see if it works out.
Well, Bachman and Romney both oppose it (although Romney did support the original Boehner plan… I think he just makes it up as he goes). Huntsman favors it. I don’t think I’ve heard anything from Perry. Who cares what Palin thinks. Obviously Obama will have to sign it.
So, I guess the question is whether the GOP candidate is going to attack the plan, or just let the issue go and focus on other issues (economy in general).
You saw how big this thing was made .The debt ceiling was a hand waving formality in the past. Now it is a huge crisis. It somehow resonates with the baggers. They rallied like Obama was taking them off a cliff instead of merely paying bills already committed to.
They made a huge deal out of nothing. The economy will not get better. They made sure of that.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see this as pretty much an unalloyed victory for the Democrats and a massive cluster fuck for the Republicans?? Aren’t the polls showing overwhelmingly that most people place the blame for this entire debacle at the feet of the Republicans, and while the Democrats haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory either they seem to be coming out better in most peoples minds…and Obama has actually gotten a bump in popularity over this, IIRC.
Or is it just me who thinks this? If the left doesn’t eat Obama and jump off the collective cliff holding the Democratic party by the nose and taking them over with them, I’d think that this is going to work in the Democrats favor not just in Obama’s re-election but in gaining more seats in the House and Senate.
Of course, the left and the Democrats are always masters at snatching defeat from the slavering jaws of victory…and there is still plenty of time for them to screw the pooch and save the day.
My gut feeling right now - and it will almost certainly change - is that I will not vote for any democratic candidates in 2012. Most likely I’ll either not vote or cast a protest vote for a third-party candidate.
For reference, in presidential elections I’ve voted for 4 dems, 3 reps and 2 libertarians with a 5-4 mark relative to the winners. In other words, Obama lost a swing voter.
But that’s before the money weighs in. It will be a battle between businesses and the wealthy between those that continue to think that the chance of a default is worth the lower taxes, and those that realize that the economy was really on the precipice and so decide to support those with a saner money policy. If they start to weigh more toward the Democrats, then this could help the message get out better on that side.
He could have vetoed any extension of the Bush tax cuts long ago. He didn’t.
I’m sorry, I’m done. I’m voting for Nader until Nader drops dead or someone else actually puts up an *economic *progressive. Y’all can come “compromise” with me, I am done “compromising” myself to the Clintonistas. A Reaganite who believes in birth control is still a Reaganite.
