You may be making the mistake of giving the debt-to-GDP ratio too much credence. This article from Slate.com seems to explain the fallicy of this thinking quite clearly.
Bri2k
That’s fine for back then , but we’re hearing deadline deadline crisis crisis.
That’s why I’m saying the time to take a leadership role and vote on it as a single issue is NOW! Not only would it solve a looming crisis but I think it would show some guts and leadership which might come in handy next year. If someone from the GOP does it it will help them.
Can’t get to the info from your link.
If that’s the American public that’s fine. A leadership role means you don’t always vote by the polls and you do what you feel is necessary. The other factor is I’m betting the GOP would be scared not to vote yes if it was approached as a separate issue. Any financial fallout from a no vote would fall on them.
I know I am “dismayed”
If they made it public , very public, the GOP in the house would be held directly responsible for NOT bringing it up for a vote. Again, a plus on leadership for the Dems. My guess is other than a few ideologues they wouldn’t dare to refuse. But time is running short to really take advantage of this option.
I always think like this, what would be our chances, when we would be a company… but may be we are already one…
Huh. How about that?
Well, yeah, but your idea was to present the following pitch: “We tried to negotiate. We can’t agree. Now it’s time to vote on raising the debt ceiling with zero attached to it. Vote yes or no on that one issue so we can get it done and move on. We won’t listen to any more bargaining or attaching other issues to this vote.” Wouldn’t the general public appreciate that kind of directness and see it as real leadership? I would. And wouldn’t the GOP be forced to accept it or look incredibly bad? Given the poll, I don’t figure that would sell – which is why I think the GOP can negotiate from a fairly strong position.
Boehner won’t return the Presidents calls and the latest round of debt talks have collapsed. I don’t think I’ll be able to cast a vote for a Republican fir a very long time.
I am not really following this current legislation, but Ive seen a lot of budget bills go thru Congress over the past 60 years.
As I understand it, the House has ALREADY!!! passed a bill. They did what they had to do. The House is done. The Republicans are done. Now it is the Senate’s turn.
It is now up to the Senate and obama, and they are Democrats.
I believe the usual standard procedure is for the Senate to now pass their version of the bill, after which then the House bill and the Senate bill go to conference to work out the differences between what the House passed, and what the Senate passed, if there are any differences. It is at that conference that Boehner would then negotiate. After the Senate and house come up with a final joint bill, then it goes to obama.
Until the Senate passes their version of the bill, there is not much Boehner can do. There is really no need for Boehner to talk to anyone at this point. The Senate is controlled by Democrats, so there also isnt anything for the Republicans to do right now. Boehner cant really negotiate with himself.
When’s the soonest that I can expect shit to get real serious? I was talking earlier to some friends about Cut, Cap, and Balance, which was failed in the Senate, as we all knew it would be. With that deadline drawing ever closer, when will the shit get real?
It is up to the Senate. The Senate has the ball.
When did the house pass a bill to extend the debt limit? Why wouldn’t the democrats go ahead and pass it in the senate if that were the case? Why is the holdup with Boehner and the house republicans?
Well, if Senate does nothing, and these talks go nowhere, it’s gonna hit the fan BIG TIME. Have your survival gear ready, if any of you Survivalist whack-jobs are reading this.
Cut, Cap, and Balance is what passed in the house. It would raise the debt ceiling, Cut from social programs, Cap our spending, and Balance our budget. There’s a lot of hyper-partisanship in this. GOP wants to cut social programs deeply, Dems don’t wan to cut at all, and they are both at eachother’s throats.
The process is that the president proposes a budget. Then the House originates and passes the spending and revenue bill, and it did. The House is done.
The next step is for the Senate to pass the House bill, or to pass its own version of the House bill. This is where we are now!! We are waiting for the Senate to approve the House bill, or else for the Senate to modify the House bill and pass the Senate modified House bill.
There is no *“holdup with Boehner and the house republicans” *- THEY ARE DONE!!! unless the Senate passes a bill that is different than the House bill.
The Federal Budget Process
A spending bill must be created, debated and passed to fund the programs and operations of each Cabinet-level agency. Per the Constitution, each spending bill must originate in the House. Since the House and Senate versions of each spending bill must be identical, this always become the most time-consuming step in the budget process.
This isn’t a budget issue. The budget and appropriate were passed long ago. The issue here is that we have to actually sign for the bill for all the stuff we ordered, and we’re refusing to do that. Congress already approved this spending - that ship has sailed - they’re just now petulantly refusing to pay the bill to keep the lights on at this point. This has nothing to do with the budget or the original appropriations. The debt ceiling is a procedural thing that needs to be raised seperately from the appropriations that necesitate its raising.
If this isn’t about Bohner and the house republicans, how is it that Boehner no longer negotiating with the president? If he’s not even involved in this whole deal, and his part is done. And why isn’t the democrat majority in the senate passing the debt ceiling laws? If it was up to them, they’d pass it in a second.
I understand that you’re misinformed of the factual issues almost constantly. But generally people who decide to ignore the factual issues at least create a working model of what’s going on in their head that makes superficial logically sense, even if it’s incorrect. How is it that in your world the senate democrats are somehow holding up the show despite everything said about the issue being in regards to the house republican’s deliberate holdup here?
Duh, I ain’t shtupud although I will say that I shouldn’t have posted what I did. It’s just that the person to whom I replied irritates the living hell out of me. My experience took place in a very small town where I was pretty well known and my reputation was solid; local people made exceptions for me. My credit rating, though, was ruined even though my life was not.
[QUOTE=;14053440]
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper
46% say raise the debt ceiling, 49% say don’t..
[/QUOTE]
Then WHAT? the heck is the problem?
It was voted down. Get over it. Accept it, move on and cut the spending.
If you want to bring up discussion again,then make it an issue in 2012. The people can be given a choice in 2012 to vote Democrat if they want more government spending, or vote Republican if they do not want the ceiling raised. It can be made a pretty clear choice in 2012.
That bill is dead. The Senate voted it down. That means the House must start the process over.
The House is back to square one. They must initiate new legislation, and it’s childish to think that whatever solution is just going to spring forth from Zeus’ head without talks between the White House and congressional leaders.
Is this really your version of leadership? A refusal to negotiate every time Boehner gets scared that the Tea Party is going to stick a knife in his back?
Forget it, Jake; it’s Susanann.
No. It is not dead. We do not need to start over. That is stupid. That is not how it works. We dont need to start over just because one house does not like some of the things in a piece of legislation. Nothing would ever get passed, never!!!, if that is what is done.
What is supposed to happen is that if the Senate does not like the HOuse version of the bill, then the Senate needs to pass THEIR OWN version of that House bill, and then after the Senate has a version, then both houses go into joint House-Senate conference committee to work out their differences in the 2 different versions that passed each house.
Right now, it is up to the Senate to pass their version of the House bill before a final joint bill can be sent to be signed into law. The Senate has the ball.
(I am not saying that the House could negotiate not with itself and pass lots of different bills all by itself, but that would be very stupid, pointless, and could take forever with thousands of different versions before accidentally finding a bill that the Senate would pass with no joint committee )