The Decline of Religion in American Life

Great Debates
21

Sure, but how many people really conflated televangelist peccadilloes with Christianity as a whole? I mean, I was always with you and thought that televangelists were frauds from the get-go, and when they were exposed as philanderers and crooks, it was confirmation of something I already expected. But I never extended that such that I assumed that Father Pete at the local Episcopal Church, or Pastor Bob at the local Baptist church was a fraud or crook, or that they were all on the same team.

I always felt like the politicization of Christianity was a little later - late 1980s and mostly either the wackadoo super conservative fringe who wanted to legislate everything or Catholics having a massive focus on being against birth control and abortion. Even then, it wasn’t your average mainline Protestant, or even Southern Baptist church- it was always the fringey evangelical, snake-handling type element, or so it seemed to me at the time. Pastor Jim at the Presbyterian church wasn’t telling anyone who to vote for in 1988, while Brother Bill at the weird church with the florid name was.

I do think that you’re on to something with the televangelists’ focus on cash sort of priming Gen-Xers to be suspicious of churches asking for money though.

In a larger sense, I wonder if this is part of or a symptom of a broader decline in civic trust that we see in American society in the 1970s and afterward. I mean, in the 1950s and 1960s, people seemed to trust the government and civic institutions like churches, etc… but sometime in the 1970s, people seem to have stopped trusting anything like that.

22

Over many decades haven’t Americans turned away from joining organizations in their free time?

23

I had an acquaintance that was very much of that mindset, at least for awhile. A lapsed Catholic himself, he and his wife still felt that a Catholic upbringing had done them a lot of good when they were young in instilling moral values, guidance, structure and boundaries. So he struggled with whether or not to raise his kids in the church, even though his personal belief in God was circling the drain.

In the end the last bit settled it - he went from soft agnostic to full atheism and just couldn’t bring himself to be a hypocrite about it. The Catholic pedophilia scandals did not help.

24

America isn’t a Christian country, but it’s one where, in a lot of regions, the default religion is Christianity, much like how English isn’t our national language but it’s the strongest default unless you really cherry-pick your regions. Therefore, converting to some non-Christian religion in America is more of an active process, whereas, for a lot of non-immigrants, becoming Christian would be as easy as following along with whatever church our parents went to, or going with the nearest religious person.

So why isn’t that happening?

I see a cycle in play: As more and more people leave religion, the remaining people are the most religious, which means the bar to be religious has been raised. In short, if you aren’t at least this into the church, you’re out of place and the people around you will be pressuring you into changing your lifestyle. That isn’t conducive to an evangelical faith; look at what Christianity became when it mutated from being Yet Another Jewish Doomsday Heresy to being the religion of the Roman Empire.

The other part of that is what the Christian lifestyle effectively entails: If you’re Bible-Believing Christian or Catholic, as opposed to Unitarian* or, say, United Church of Christ** or Quaker, you pretty much have to believe some pretty awful things in order to belong. The Madonna/Whore Complex got its name for a reason, for example, and it only gets worse when you think through the implications of their various stances on abortion, and why they have them. Millennial morality is more informed by notions of Social Justice, and modern Christian churches have been fighting against that since the Civil Rights Movement.

*(My brother’s wife is a Unitarian and so’s her mom. I’ve been to a Unitarian funeral and I can say that my brother the jokey Satanist probably thinks more strongly about religion than the Unitarians I know.)

**(I was an altar boy in a UCC church when I was very young.)

So, in summary:

The Christians around them are all avid churchgoers and truly believe in what their pastor/priest says.

The people who, in previous times, would have been lukewarm pew-fillers are now bold enough to simply stay home on Sunday and go to house parties on Christmas.

Meanwhile, a lot of Millennials think the progress of the Queer Civil Rights Movement is one of the biggest positives of our era, and the only time they hear much about the True Christians is when one of the more homophobic members of their leadership is arrested for raping boys or something.

There’s just no positives to being Christian and, perhaps more importantly, no negatives to not being Christian.

And becoming anything non-Christian beyond “vague Deism” isn’t very advantageous, either.

25

I think you’re missing at least three:

  1. Desire to feel part of a whole much larger than oneself, and even larger than the human species. Related to your #2, I think, but not really the same thing.

  2. Fear of death, and of grief. Quite a lot of religions promise some form of afterlife. Beng able to believe this means not only believing that one’s not going to die, but also that one can hope to be reunited with loved ones who have died.

  3. An explanation for the mystical experience. What that is isn’t clear; but that some people have such a thing is clear.

Those aren’t necessarily part of organized religion. But, though I’m mostly not religious myself, I suspect they’re a huge part of the impetus for religion in humans.

26

Sounds like I missed some. Here are my thoughts on these.

  1. I think our current religions are not well set up to meet that need. For my own part when I was growing up, the Catholic church was more about following a set of rules, going to mass on Sunday, and in general being the no fun brigade. They certainly didn’t do much in the way of making me feel as if I was a part of something larger than myself. As such people with that need are probably doing things like joining the military, the peace corp, or various other service organizations, rather than sitting in a stuffy old church every Sunday to listen to some old man prattle on.

  2. Goes along with the metaphysics, at least in my book. There’s more answers to be found studying the latest in quantum theory or neuroscience than there is in the bible.

  3. Probably applies to only a few people. Even then, those folks are probably more likely to seek their own meaning for that experience rather than be told by their pastor what they should be thinking.

27

“Our children” does not imply that the people in question are under 18. My 65 year old father is my grandmother’s child.

28

Religion has always largely served social needs. There are places where it remains popular, in smaller towns. There are places where Christianity is becoming more popular, and one could name many countries, largely in the Southern Hemisphere.

But it’s hard to argue with the points listed above. Religion in general is not famous for dynamic change. To serve social needs it needs to reflect them.

29

I wonder if that’s much of the root of the issue; in a lot of ways, I get the impression that Gen X was the first generation to be taught from childhood to question authority, find our own answers, and generally critically think. Or at least that was the plan anyway.

Going to church isn’t terribly compatible with much of that- like you say, it’s geared much more toward you going, doing the rituals, and essentially being told what the denomination’s party line is on issues/behaviors.

I suspect a lot of Gen X are what I’d call lackadaisical Christians. They don’t necessarily NOT believe in God, but they’re not convinced there’s a need to go be part of a church to be a Christian- after all, they can read the Bible and think through moral issues the same as anyone else, right?

30

I found this to be the stand-out section of the article:
“And fewer than one in three (32 percent) millennials say they attended weekly religious services with their family when they were young, compared with about half (49 percent) of Baby Boomers.”
How can you read a statistic like that and then declare that you are shocked, shocked that millennials aren’t “returning” to religious affiliation like their parents did? It seems to me that most millennials weren’t religious to begin with.

Another point that was important is that millennials are more likely to marry someone who is religiously unaffiliated than previous generations. Possibly because, unlike their Boomer parents, most millennials were never religiously affiliated to begin with. Having an unaffiliated spouse reasonably makes it less likely that a millennial is going to re-affiliate for the sake of their child. After all, if the spouse turned out just fine without going to services every week…?

It makes a lot of sense that re-affiliation rates are going down and staying down.

It’s also notable that the survey methodology drew from an opt-in online panel. I have a suspicion that this might introduce a self-selection bias, either because a) I assume very poor/rich people have less time/propensity to answer online opinion surveys and are more likely to be religious, or b) I assume that very religious people are less likely to try and make money off an opinion polling site like YouGov. They also said they factored religion into sample weighting which doesn’t make sense to me when the survey is about religion.

~Max

31

Speaking as someone who sees a benefit in being irreligious (if you time it right, you can get served in restaurants on Sunday without a wait by beating the church crowd), I think the Decline of Religion in American Life is overstated.

As mentioned elsewhere recently, there are a shitpot of new church facilities being built out here in the hinterlands, with mega-buildings, mega-parking lots and mega-sermons prominently advertised on mega-signs. Someone is filling up those pews.*

All it will take for that good ol’ time religion to make a comeback even in the satanic big cities is for a nasty major earth-shaking event to shock the sinners away from their cellphones and Twitter accounts.

We could see stake-burning again in our lifetimes, yes indeedy. :cool:

*Technically I suppose Jews don’t have pews, but one can spot the occasional mega (well OK, mod)-gogue as well.

32

I think the decline of religion in American life corresponds to the decline in church attendance. Church reinforces religious beliefs. Not going to church allows non-religious beliefs to creep in and take over.

I grew up in a religious household. I was dragged to church every Sunday. As soon as I left home, I stopped going. Over several years, my niggling little questions I had turned into real doubts. I learned how to cope with anxiety without prayer. The SDMB threads about Christianity that I used to intentionally avoid started attracting my attention. I began to notice the cringy things Christians would say in discussions and debates, but instead of sympathizing with them and trying to help them articulate their position, I would find myself wanting them to STFU. I began reading scholarly critiques of Christianity. After almost ten years of full-fledged adulthood, I was OK with no longer identifying as a Christian.

I think technology has made it easier to doubt and reject religious beliefs. The internet not only enables the exposure to new ideas, but it also allows a person to find “their people”. People who are questioning their faith can find others like them and not feel so lonely and guilty. Loneliness and guilt can make people stick with something just for the sake of sticking with it.

I also think increased educational attainment has made it so that more people have the confidence and skillset to question received wisdom. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the poor tend to be religiously devout. The poor also tend to be under-educated. When people are encouraged to stretch their minds and ask questions and do their own research, they will be critical of all the things Pastor says from behind the pulpit.

Finally, I think mass media plays a huge role. It used to be the church was the primary way people experienced awe. Church was where you got to hear awesome music. Church was where you’d go to hear awesome oration. On holy days, you knew you could count on an awesome play at church. But nowadays, those awesome cultural experiences can be obtained 24/7. When people realize that their hearts can swell at the same intensity to both secular and religious ideas, then the latter no longer hold such a tight hold on them.

33

As I read that, millennials are seeing religious association as a moral identity; just not in a positive way. The script has flipped so that they’re seeing organized religious groups as immoral, or at the very least counter to their individual sense of morality.
That’s a big change. It’s one thing to think of religion as not relevant or not interesting (which is what I saw more with people my age). It’s another to think of religion as actively doing wrong (which is what I think I’m reading in the quotes about millennial). you might “return” to a group you find boring, but you won’t return to a group you find evil.

(I’m a GenX Protestant who is currently not actively involved in a religious community, FWIW).

34

Both of these things, taken together, summarize my post: Modern Christianity is coming to be seen as only for the hard-right racists, homophobes, transphobes, and Trump voters. Religious morality is now synonymous with hating people for things they can’t change.

Without social coercion to force the majority to go to church and play along, the moderates aren’t in the pews to “water down” the hate and make the congregation majority sane; more importantly, saying that homosexuality is wrong because Jesus says so no longer holds any water for a majority, so the people who still preach the traditional bigotries seem like evil aliens instead of respected thought leaders.

35

I’ve been an atheist for over 50 years, and have some additional observations.

First, not being religious is a lot easier now than it was 50 years ago. Then it was default. My kids never had a problem in never going to church or shul.

Second, there are better non-religious role models today. Back in the early '60s atheists were crazy or communist. Now we have Dawkins and Bill Gates. New atheism helped a lot in creating best sellers about why atheism makes sense.

Third, science fiction. Knowledge of science fiction is a lot more prevalent today than 50 years ago, and atheism is the default in most sf. (I know about Orson Scott Card and Canticle for Leibowitz.) No god in Star Wars. Mostly no god in Star Trek. No chaplains on the Enterprise, after all.

Fourth, there are a lot more non-Christian people in the US today. When I was growing up I knew some kids of non-European and African ethnicities, but my father worked for the UN and there were a lot of UN families in our neighborhood. My wife who grew up outside of Philadelphia knew almost none. Many Chinese-Americans were in their own neighborhoods, and there were almost no Indians. Not true today in many regions.
Half the people I see Christmas shopping are almost certainly not Christian. They may or not be atheists, but it reduces social pressure to be Christian. (Or Jewish where I grew up.)

Fifth, a lot of religions forecast fire and brimstone if SSM were legalized. Turns out nothing awful happened. Ditto for the immorality of dirty words, sex on the internet, yadda yadda yadda. Great reason to dismiss their blathering. The hypocrisy already mentioned helps too.

36
37

Well, the Enterprise did have a chapel (and I don’t mean the nurse!). One episode had the chapel in use for a wedding.

And, of course, there was another episode that had Lieutenant Uhura telling Captain Kirk (played by Shatner, who is Jewish) that the rebels on one planet worshiped the son of God, not the sun in the sky.
Yet another episode had the rebels talking about “sacred words” and other holy things.

38

I’d guess that this is a big part of it, but it’s not just younger folks. Their parents and probably even their grandparents weren’t big joiners either, at least compared to the peak. The trend has been noted for a long time now.

39

That is part of it. Probably a large part of it. Especially around issues of gender and sexuality.

And it’s not just the politics, directly. A lot of young people are really concerned about the environment and climate change, and they don’t see religious groups doing anywhere near enough about that, which can’t help but be disillusioning.

I think another part is increased urbanization. It’s even there in your quote: “We moved to a city”…

Cite for that? There are many more organizations than the religious - I look at Extinction Rebellion and similar orgs and I see a lot of young people.

40

Maybe part of the problem is that many Millennials are aware that it is not, in fact, “the religious truth”. Just a religious opinion.