nay, lads… the end began at 3:30 in the afteroon of the 23rd day of April, in Nineteen-hundred and Sixty-nine.
The decline of western civilization began with the increased number of children being born out of wedlock starting in the 60’s, and continuing on through the following decades. Children need to be supported by their parents throughout the process of growing up. Single-parent households, especially where the parent works, often cannot give them the love, support, and education they need. I believe that’s the root cause of higher crime rates, higher rates of drug use, and all the other problems we see today.
April 23, 1969: In the first game of the NBA Finals, Jerry West scores 53 points to lead the LA Lakers to a 120-118 win over the Boston Celtics in Los Angeles.
Hmm…probably after 3:30pm, though. 
On April 23, 1969, Mayor Daley set a new record for serving as mayor longer than any other man in Chicago’s history.
But surely his election date would be the beginning of the decline, if it were all Daley’s fault. 
On April 23,1969, Sirhan was sentenced to death for assassinating New York Sen. Robert F. Kennedy. The sentence was later reduced to life imprisonment.
Sentencing…hardly the most significant day in the whole affair.
April 23, 1969 - Charlotte school board is ordered to eliminate segregated schools in the Swann case ruling.
verbenabeast is a closet segregationist? I shall not consider such a libelous accusation.
Okay, I give up.
Oh, and my vote for the start of the decline of western civilization is ~30AD. 
I figure the decline of civillization started when Oog moved out of his cave and built the first hut. It’s all been downhill from there.
Whew! Not only did ITR identify the problem and figure out how to fix it, he only needed 4 sentences!
Here’s the problem:
Is this “Western civilization,” or “America?”
Out of wedlock and single parent are not the same.
Crime and drug use are both strongly on the decline today.
Another take - this one attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. When asked what he thought of Western Civilization, he supposedly replied “I think it would be a good idea.”
(proto-Nazi german philosopher) dated the beginning of the decline of western civ at around 1490 (the dawn of the renaissance!). I believe his words were “what was perceived to be a dawn (the “renaissance” was in fact a setting sun”
Old Oswald felt that the “High” Middle Ages were the apex of western civilization!
Philosophers have been debating this point forever…I believe that Western Civilization has never been better! Of course, we HAVE a few problems:
-Celine Dion
-rap “music”
-boy piercing
But comparing us to other civilizations (like the islamic “civilization” or the Hindu culture, we come out quite admirably!
ralph124c: What is this “boy piercing” of which you speak?
Barry
godzillatemple: you mean “Who is that boy piercing of whom you speak”. I bet he’s related to Boy George.
There certainly are more freedoms today. Perhaps we just haven’t yet learned the responsibilities that accompany them.
The whole “Girls Gone Wild” and Jerry Springer business: sure, you could parallel this with the bread-and-circus stuff of the Romans. We’re just much more aware today of the full range of human experience. This is a benefit we have of video technology, in that we can see what’s happening around the globe, in an instant. It is harder to get away with crime and graft and corruption today for this and other technological reasons. It is also a curse, because we haven’t yet learned to be sufficiently cynical and demanding of the evidence we do get, and we make snap judgements.
The technology is different today. We have better records. We’re more aware of our world. The judging part is all our fault, though, and that hasn’t changed in centuries. I think we’ve always done that. Even the Bible warns us about snap judgements; and I’ve a quote by Socrates in The Portable Curmudgeon Redux about how kids today disobey their parents and terrorize their teachers.
While today we’re complaining about freedom fries and freedom toast and other absurdities, it’s nothing new. We re-named sauerkraut to victory cabbage during the Second World War, right?
Or take the Trent Lott comments about Strom Thurmond. Fifty years ago, if someone had made a remark even obliquely interpreted as supporting someone’s candidacy on an anti-black platform, you wouldn’t even have heard about it. True, I think today’s media over-reacted, but at least they reacted. The cameras were there, and caught his statement on tape for analysis. True, the cameras also catch the Girls Gone Wild, but even if you think overt sexuality is a bad thing, it’s a small price to pay.
Or look at Oscar Wilde: prosecuted for his sexual orientation and imprisoned. Compare that to Richard Chamberlain, who just announced his own to the news, a century after Wilde’s trial.
Music? Look at ragtime. It was denounced by church leaders because it might lead to such immoral behavior as bare arms and dancing. Parents today would be happy with only bare arms and dancing!
Politics? In the book Bad Predictions, there is a quote warning against the election of Thomas Jefferson; if he were elected, then crime would be taught in schools, and the moral character of the country would decay; the country would stand in ruin, and so on. Amazing.
Instead of asking how and why Western Civilization has declined, I’m inclined to ask how it got so uptight in the first place. Surely that’s the more amazing of the two: how did we get civilization to begin so low, then impose so many self-defeating and ridiculous restraints upon itself, before finally tearing them down again?
Better yet: once we get to the point where we’re buck naked, fornicating in the streets, pissing on each other’s heads, and eating raw meat with our teeth, what are teenagers going to do that could possibly shock their parents?
FISH
When did we start? Probably since the beginning of time. Someone mentioned Ancient Rome’s “bread and circuses” I’d rather watch Springer (which I HATE) than go and watch an execution. Or a freak show.
As a historian, I am so sick and tired of this whole myth of the “good old days.” People need to realize-we’re still as good or bad as we always were-we just find different things to bitch about. And we go back and forth-the Victorian era was somewhat prudish (although not nearly as people like to think!), but prior to that, in the Regency, people were shockingly scandalous.
The good old days weren’t so good.
There have been some very good posts in this thread. Looking towards the past with rose colored glasses will not give any answers and neither will blaming the newest generation (as is always the case).
I was a teenager living in Atlanta,in the 50’s. The stuff that FranticMad mentions was certainly true
However, he implies that things weren’t happening. I would point out that Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education decision was made in the 50’s.
Martin Luther King started his career in the 50’s.
And thus it follows that Rosa Parks stood up for her rights in the 50’s.
On a personal note the reason that our parents disappoved of our musical tastes was that we were listening to Ray Charles, B.B. King, Fats Domino, Little Richard and other black singers on a black station (WAOK) in Atlanta.
My mother won election as a commissioner in the suburb we lived in. She was the first woman in Georgia to be elected to such an office.
Other places in the world were demanding their rights to self-government. Gandhi was one who led such a movement and also influenced Rev. King.
My point is that many of the things that have been mentioned so far as recent accomplishments, were started back in the “good old days”. Those days have skeltons in the closet and weren’t as wonderful as they are remembered. However, they were not barren of advancements in the human condition, either.
I suppose that to some, a constant state of Change can look like a collapse…
A nicely thought-out post, Fish. Just a few more comments:
I took the “decline of western civ” to be hyperbole–I don’t think civilation is actually in danger. However, I think some aspects of American culture are worse than they were 30-40 years ago, and this doesn’t need to be–it’s not an inevitable consequence of more freedoms and equal rights. Is Friends funnier than Dick van Dyke because they can say “ass” and “bitch”? Is NYPD Blue better than HIll Street Blues because of Dennis Franz’ butt? I think our pop culture is more vulgar than it was, and that doesn’t make us a better society.
It also feeds on itself. Filmmakers, musicians, TV producers can pick one aspect of the human experience to focus on, and say “hey, we’re just reflecting reality.” And then when you see it on the screen, it makes it OK to emulate in real life. And the spiral continues.
If Friends needs to use those words to make people laugh and ***** van ***** didn’t, I’d say that’s more a reflection of what people find funny. If people don’t laugh at what they laughed at 30 years ago, the humor has to change. Comedy is reliant on surprising people, so the familiar gets old.
Yes, that’s exactly right, thank you for getting my point.
Barry
There was a newpaperman named Harry Golden who wrote endearing nostalgia in the 1950’s about growing up in the 1910’s +20’s, among the immigrants who came through Ellis Island. Life was very, very tough and dangerous then–people lived from hand to mouth, in constant fear of being thrown out in the street for not being able to pay rent on an unheated tenement room.Jobs were limited by your ethnic group–signs publicly declared no Irish need apply, no Jews, no blacks allowed.
So why was he able to speak warmly of those times?In one essay he said it very simply: you were hungry, you feared for your future, you didn’t know if you would have a roof over your head next week. But each and every single day, you sat down with your family to a meal. No meat, maybe not even potatoes–but a meal cooked by someone who loved you, shared with people who supported you.
(True,alcoholism was rampant among some social strata then, but in his family, and millions of others, it was that family meal that saved the day.And western civilization along with it. )
Yes, of course, jsc1953. The two examples you cite, however, hinge on “vulgarity.” I previously said:
A few bare breasts is a bad thing, simply because it’s considered vulgar by some? Or the bare behind of Dennis Franz? A few naughty words? I don’t think that in all cases, an increased awareness of sexuality is a bad thing, and that is one area where relatively little change has been made compared to other freedoms. We would have little trouble accepting these things if it weren’t for centuries of psychomoral programming by the extremely conservative, which was also my original point. How did we get so repressed on these subjects to begin with?
It occurs to me now, hammering on my laptop, that the various freedoms we now enjoy and a culture of evenhandedness we’re trying to promote has been about recognizing the essential humanity of all shapes and sizes of humankind. The examples I cited were about the acceptance of women’s rights, the rights of differently-colored, those of different sexual orientation, and so on. But those things which are considered vulgar acknowledge the essential animalness of humans: we eat, we shit, we fuck, we die. We’re all essentially big naked animals in the trappings of civilization, or as my brother likes to say, “monkeys with cigarettes and blue jeans.” So what is considered vulgar now on television is sex, death, toilet humor, and violence.
It’d be nice if we could acknowledge that we’re raising our level of humanity and civilization, while not shying away from our essential animalness and mortality.
Just a complete WAG.
FISH
“Decline of Western Civilization”? Anybody got any proof that it’s started yet?
Remember the famous Ghandi quote:
Reporter: So Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Western Civilization?
Gandi: I think it would be a good idea.
The decline of Western Civilization began with that repeat, since I posted the same quote about 36 hours ago.