The declining box office draw

Here’s my treatise on what’s wrong with the movies.

First off, we’ll just take for granted that the movies are indeed making less money than they ever did. I don’t have data to suppose it and it’s certainly possible that different statistics pain different pictures of the reality. I’m willing to accept that on the whole movies are losing market share, but the concept of a “declining box office” can be a complex measure. Also, I’m comparing movies today to movies from the late 80’s and early-to-mid nineties. I think popular opinion is that that was the pinnacle of the Hollywood Box Office.

The reasons, each with a scale from 1 to 10 on how big an effect it has:

  1. Cost - This is a complex one that I think most of you have over-simplified and misinterpreted. Movies are only marginally more expensive than they were 15 years ago. Since the day I was old enough to stay awake in a show people have been complaining about movie prices. In 90 when they cost $6.50 people frothed at the mouth about the price and concessions are an ongoing hot button. To claim that movies are too expensive is probably true, but to claim that they are move expensive than they were 15 years ago is only marginally true. Certainly not to the point that it dramatically outpaces inflation and more appropriately matches the cost of entertainment (which has increased across the board way more than the consumer price index).

So, to say the $10 for a movie and $8 for soda and popcorn is too expensive might be true for you, but 15 years ago at $6.50 and $6 respectively was comparatively just as overpriced. It’s not the primary cause of the decline.

Rating: 2 of 10.

  1. Multitude of Entertainment Options - This is the big one in my estimation. It ties in with cost in a complex way. Movies aren’t much more expensive than they once were but when you stack them up against the many, many time killing options out there they become a much worse value.

15 years ago the video rental store was still a developing concept and there weren’t necessarily a broad range of choices there to rent. Cable TV was pretty new and wasn’t widespread, and even where it was common people bought the premium channels at a much lower rate. Nintendo, while awesome, wasn’t quite the addiction games are now. There were no MMORPGs, there were no FPSs, games were half as long, and on the whole playing was a less solitary experience. The were few computers, no modern internet (with MBs like this). 15 years ago attendance at sporting events were much lower than they are today and there’s probably a half-dozen other date-type activities that didn’t exist a decade ago.

People have always had a certain amount of money earmarked for leisure. In the 80’s you basically had movies, mini-golf and live performances/sports. When you look at it that way movies look like a great bargain even if they account for the same proportion of your disposable income. Today, compared to cable, Netflix, the internet, and hi-tech games the theater seems awfully expensive for a short payoff. The price hasn’t changed but the perceived value has.

Rating: 8 of 10.

  1. Reduced Discretionary Income - This one ties into the previous two as well. 15 years ago everyone didn’t have huge cell phone bills. Cable TV was cheap compared to today and no one had broadband bills and Tivo/DVR accounts. Gas was much much cheaper, and that not a recent thing, gas is at a peak now but it’s increased over the last 15 years at a painful pace. This is not a new problem. Hell, utilities used to be an afterthought. In the 80s I can’t recall there ever being a need to complain about gas prices and energy shortages.

Again, movie prices aren’t any more obnoxious than they were back in the day, but when you’ve got 10 recurring bills each month they’ll eat up a bigger chunk of your budget.

Rating: 5 of 10.

  1. Lack of creativity in movies - I don’t think this can be dismissed. I agree with the notion that there’s always been crap. Probably a equal ratio of crap to great films over the last 3 decades. Still, all the remakes and repackaged dreck is killing peoples sense of adventure when picking a movie. Customers share a big part of the blame. In the 80s they didn’t focus group everything to death so you’d see movies marketed in the hopes that people will buy it. Much less certainty but this meant for a occasional original thought that would capture peoples attention. I’m struggling to recall the last movie I saw that wasn’t a remake, a TV adaptation, based off a book, a biopic or historical fiction. It’s probably true that, on average, movies are less apt to flop these days. You can assure yourself of a certain audience by doing a video game based movie. Nowadays we get the Resident Evil type movies, in the 80’s we got Howard the Duck. Still, it virtually eliminates the possibility of there being a truly revolutionary movie that defines a summer like they used to. It essentially brings the movie quality to the middle, which in effect lowers the perceived value of going to the movies once again.

Rating: 5 of 10.

  1. Increased noise in the theaters - I’m calling bullshit on this one. True, cell phones are ubiquitous and annoying, but people have gotten really good about turning them off these days, largely with the help of reminders in the previews. I can’t say I’ve seen this to be a problem as of late. No more so than pagers were in the early 90s certainly. I think it’s mostly perception if anything at all.

People have always talked in movies. There’s always that one group. Hell, it was a running gag in a Seinfeld episode circa 1994. I’m not convinced that it’s more of an issue today. If anything stadium seating and improved sound systems make it barely noticeable unless someone is being really obnoxious. Some theaters have gotten bigger which means more people and a higher likelihood of getting stuck with a jackass, but that’s the only scenario where I think noise levels have changed between now and 15 years ago.

Of course that still might be too noisy for some, but it was just as likely too noisy in 1990. You were probably just more tolerant. It’s the old rose-colored glasses thing.

Rating: 1 of 10

  1. Too many previews - There’s definitely more commercials and previews these days but personally it doesn’t bother me. I always loved the trailers of up coming movies and I still do so that’s not a negative in my book. The commercials are a little annoying but they are a long ways from being so bad as to diminish my movie going experience. Realistically they account for less than 10 minutes of time and they don’t cause me any more stress than old-fashioned movie trivia and elevator music from back in the day.

I suppose there’s a subset of people who are eager to get to the movie and back home, probably the same type of customer who dislike epic length movies. I’ve never understood this mindset, seeing a movie is a long leisurely thing to me, so 10-15 minutes here or there is not a negative. Still, I suppose there’s a portion of the audience who this affects.

Rating: 3 of 10

  1. DVD releases and home theaters - Yeah, this one is a factor and the quality shift between VHS and DVD might be the most key component. Sure they come out sooner on DVD but I think this is more of a response than a cause. As the box office returns get smaller producers roll out DVDs to get them into the market before what buzz there is is gone. There’s always been a sizable contingent who “waited for video” for all but the biggest blockbusters. I don’t think release dates have driven that segment to grow so much as the ability to watch a movie at home with surround sound and near-high-def quality. The move to DVD had a huge impact on the average viewers experience.

It plays to the value component again. Movies are better than they were 15 years ago, but home movies are better by a much bigger margin. As a result the difference in value is very pronounced.

Rating: 7 of 10

That covers the biggest factors as I see it. Each plays some part but in the end it all comes down to perceived value of the experience. In my estimation the much noted inconveniences are vastly outweighed but the bang-for-the-buck measure.

  1. The audiences at theatres have gotten more annoying.

I have to say that I find audiences more annoying. People talk, answer their cell phone and in general don’t seem to understand that they are in public and are expected to act differently than they do in their living room. I think this is a trend throughout society and carries over into the theater.

Being in a theater is just a nasty experience anymore.

  1. The movies have gotten too expensive.

Movies are closer to $10 in Washington DC, plus parking, plus overpriced popcorn and soda. For my wife and I to go to a movie it can easily cost $30-40. while that is not a bank buster, I feel I would get better value for that money on some other kind of entertainment (dinner out, baseball game, free museums). I feel that the movies have gotten too expensive for what they offer in return for my money.
3) The movies nowdays are crap.

Maybe my tastes have changed, but most of what I see looks like utter crap. Every movie seems to just mimic earlier successes. If they aren’t a remake like King Kong (oooh, I wonder what it’s about), or a sequel (or god help me, a prequel: someone please give me the back story for how Darth Vader picked out his shoes), they are just tired star vehicles with increasingly ridiculous stunts and CGI. A Tom Cruise movie is going to include him getting indignant and shouting, he’s going to run with that worried look on his face and then jump in slow-mo just as the bomb goes off, etc., etc., etc.

Movies clearly are made for teenagers. It is clear from the behavior allowed in the theaters and the subject matter on the screen.

  1. The decline in price and increase in quality of home theatre.

I’m sure this is a big part of it.

  1. (And this is where Hollywood shots itself in the foot) The turnaround time of theatre release date to DVD release date.

I think this might be a chicken and the egg kinda deal. Declining ticket sales cause them to try to get more money out of DVDs which undermines ticket sales further.

It’s not a good deal, and that is expensive given the modern day and what else is available, i.e. the internet which you will note you haven’t included.

I am paying what, $15 a YEAR for the SDMB, which can entertain me for hours every single day. And I am paying $15 a MONTH for World of Warcraft (though given their upkeep costs/client base at this point that’s actually highway robbery) which again gives me hours of entertainment every single day. If I had TV, I would have 300 channels to choose from of high quality material and a DVR to record more stuff than I could possibly watch in my free time for again, maybe $50 a month or so.

I’ll bet that porn producers were complaining about prices at the theaters going up twenty years ago as the big move to video started.

I think a lot of that is creative accounting. I’ve heard that Hollywood financial types can *always * structure things to make it look like a movie lost money. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but I do think there is a lot of misplaced bitching and moaning all the way to the bank.

I agree with this. Maybe I have a low tolerance for the inconsideration of my fellow man, but I don’t want to put up with it. The advent of cell phones and MST3K, while good in context, make the moviegoing experience frustrating for me. The last movie I went to some guy was playing a video game or something on his cell phone. There was no sound, but it kept flashing. Having something flash a couple of rows ahead of you in a darkened theater has a way of distracting you. My eyes (and attention) kept going to his damned game rather than being able to get lost in the movie moment.

This one doen’t factor in too much for me. I travel fairly often and I have no problem springing $10-$12 bucks for an in-room movie at the hotel. I’ve got the money to go to the cinema–if I decided this is where I want to spend it. Most of the time it is not.

I agree to a large extent. Most everything I want to see comes out of Korea, Hong Kong, and (to a lesser extent) Japan. Asian movies are just my thing. Sure, some can be silly, some can be tedious, some are run-of-the-mill thrillers or effects vehicles. But to me there is something ‘fresher’ about them and they feed into my specialized area of interest, whereas Hollywood is stale stale stale.

Don’t get me wrong. I really do love movies. I own over 450 DVDs and rent prodigiously. But to get me into the theater you’ve got to have something special. A clever take. Something new. For example, last year **Sin City ** blew me away.

I have a modest set-up. Nice surround system but still waiting to get a widescreen. If somethign I want to see is a “big screen” type of SFX event, I would rather see it at the cinema. Most everything else can wait for DVD.

Not a factor for me. I’m not impatient when it comes to movies. I know people who count down the days until a film is released on DVD and buy it the first week it is out. I have no problem waiting a month or two (or longer) to buy or rent a DVD for a movie that seemed interesting. It’s not like I don’t have enough stuff to watch already as it is. And if the DVD is bare bones or not a great job quality-wise, I’ll wait years for an SE. Or buy a region 2 or region 3 release.

People love movies…but they hate going to the theater. It’s expensive, usually unpleasant (uncomfortable seats, loud talkers, temperature, etc.). And they hate paying $20 to see a mediocre movie (at least I do). I also prefer indie-type movies to blockbusters, and they generally don’t do wide release on them. Me ‘n’ Mr. K go to the show maybe twice a year. And it has to be something touted as GREAT and “MUST-SEE-ON-BIG-SCREEN” or we won’t bother.

Moviemakers know the value of DVD (and the pitfalls of piracy) and are still getting rich even if we don’t go to the show.

I disagree with this one, It’s more that there are many quality DVD’s available right now - the day you want to see ‘a’ movie. You have a much much bigger selection and you set the time when you start and end, and for that matter pause, rewind (or DVD term for rewind).

People see movies because they have some time ‘today’ and want to do something, rarely do they go because they ‘just have to see’ some movie that just came out.

Also I disagree with you on this one too. People who want to turn off the world when they go and emerse themselves are constantly distracted by multitasking people who like to bring the rest of their world with them and share it with the rest of us. This was not a issue before the technology was invented.

Too expensive compaired to the alternative - rent a DVD and nuke a bag of popcorn.

I agree with the home entertainment systems, and the motivation to use it to get your money’s worth.

My son and I go and catch a movie every couple of weeks. I buy books of movie tickets that save me almost half the ticket price. We go to a multiplex that has several cinemas with 3 story high screens and luxurious seating. We very rarely eat anything while watching and if we do it’s because we happened to have it around and wanted it (honey roasted cashews was the last thing). I don’t begrudge a single dollar that I spent watching stuff like LOTR on giant screens and I have never felt the urge to see an attenuated TV screening since. I probably see at least as many movies on my own for the price of one discounted ticket.

I must admit though that I find modern day audiences much bigger dickheads than they were years ago. It isn’t uncommon to sit watching a movie while people carry on conversations as though they are in their lounge room at home. Parents bring children to movies that they won’t enjoy and allow them to run amok. So I go to sessions that other people avoid and leave night times for the brave. Mind you I have to admit I don’t even like people eating noisily during a movie. Mind you half the noise could be eliminated if stiff was packaged in plastic bags rather than cellopohane and cardboard.

We got an awesome artsy theater here last winter, it’s a Landmark theater. It has a fancy snack bar, a bar with beer and liquor you can take in with you, the seats are cushy, and there are no kids. They show pretty good movies that a lot of the mainstream theaters around here don’t get. Over the last six months we’ve seen:
Capote
Transamerica
Tsotsi
Brokeback Mountain
The Passenger (old Jack Nicholson flick)
Memoirs of a Geisha
And a few more that I can’t remember. It’s a lovely place to go see a movie, and totally worth paying $9 a ticket.

I think your own location might be skewing your perspective here. I used to see movies all the time as a teenager and don’t remember people being obnoxious nearly as often. You’d be asked to leave the theater. In fact, there was a case in my home town where someone was asked to leave the theater for laughing too much and too loudly during a COMEDY. Now, in NYC and LA, your larger and more affluent populations there might have caused rudeness to hit the mainstream a bit earlier, but here here in the midwest, movie going was fairly enjoyable until the late 90s or so. Also, you need to take into account the combination of the economic boom, too…during the 90s so many people had more discretionary income, even the teens, that movie theatres would be packed even for stupid shit.

I don’t know where you’re seeing your movies but if commercials and previews are only taking up 10 - 15 minutes of your movie, you’re doing pretty well. I’s consistently 20 - 25 minutes where I am, and most of the previews are for pretty shitty movies, and most of the commercials are LAME. If they were entertaining, it might be less troublesome.

I haven’t seen a movie in a theater in a few years. I don’t like people disrupting the movie, which seems to be more prevalent, I don’t like the endless trailers, and I hate the sound system. To elaborate on that last, the commercials boom terribly, the background noise in the movie itself blares loudly, yet I cannot make out what the actors are saying! I have the money to go to a theater just about every day, if I want to…but there’s almost nothing worth watching. And there’s certainly nothing worth putting up with the theater experience to see in a theater. I used to love going to the movies just about every week. Nowadays, as I said, I haven’t been to the theater in ages. And I don’t even watch that many movies on cable or DVDs. We have cable and Netflix, but there’s just not that much that interests me any more. I really don’t want to see another series of explosions, or a bunch of nekkid or nearly nekkid young women (unless I get to see the same amount of nekkidness in a cute young guy)(and no, love scenes between a 20something starlet and a 50something name actor don’t do it for me).

Hollywood has always made movies for the teen audience. They used to make movies for adults, too. Now it seems that they don’t, or I’m just not seeing the ads for such movies.

I’ll just go play my video games or read my books if I want entertainment.

First, I am incredibly cheap, so that when I do see a movie in a theatre it’s a matinee. More importantly, I refuse to see a movie at a theatre that has commericals. As all the ones in Las Cruces do that, if I see any movies these days I’m in Albuquerque at a theatre where they don’t do that. As I’m not about to spend $50+ and 6 hrs traveling just to see a movie, it’ll only happen when I have a reason to go up there. For instance, I want to see X-Men 3 (first movie all year I’ve really wanted to see in a theatre.) If I do head up to Albuquerque for Memorial Day Weekend, then I’ll go see it. If not, then I probably won’t see it at all and then it’s a coin flip if I’ll ever see the movie, DVD or otherwise. For instance, I haven’t seen Spider-Man 2, even though I’ve wanted to and there’s a copy of the DVD sitting right there on my parents’ shelf. In fact, I haven’t seen a movie in a theatre for about 6 months, and that was The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Saw Walk the Line the month before that, and I don’t think I saw much of anything else in all of 2005. Maybe three more movies, tops.

Let’s see, coming out this year: X-Men 3, Cars, maybe Superman Returns (but I’ve never really liked Superman), A Scanner Darkly sounds interesting if only they’d release it wide, possibly Snakes on a Plane for pure camp value, is The Children of Men based on a science fiction novel by PD James?, and that looks to be pretty much it for movies I might see only going by titles and brief synopses until 2007. And other than X-Men 3 and Cars, the other movies I could take or leave. The rest listed here I either can’t see because they’re not being released wide even if one does sound interesting or I have no interest in at this time, if ever. And I should be in Hollywood’s target market.

Good movies are out there, you just have to look for them. I haven’t watched a movie like what you describe in a long time, but I’ve seen a ton of movies. What are some of your favorites?

Before looking too hard for reasons for the demise of the movie industry, let’s get back to the premise here. . .

Yeah, sure there’s been a decline the last couple years in box office, but I think we’re still near all time highs. These declines that people are all “doom and gloom” over are coming off a couple of years that saw the likes of Spiderman and Lord of the Rings and new Star Wars movies. Massive massive massive money makers.

My take: just some economic random-ness in a market that was pretty saturated to begin with.

Business is business. Sometimes there are off years that don’t really come from easily defined, or easily corrected reasons. Not every branch of every business can experience growth year after year.

::gear shift::

That said – I just don’t like most movie theaters. I consider myself VERY lucky: the three closest theaters to my house are independently owned, and one of them is a single screen, 900 seat theater. I LOVE the experience of going there. They have a big marquee, a sidewalk decorated with their big openings, an interesting lobby, a couple of dogs that run around the theater, a polite crowd. They have a curtain that opens before some movies, great sound, no ads.

But, you’re just not going to get that from a huge multiplex out in the burbs owned by some corporation with shareholders that demand profitability from every square inch of floor space and screen time.

To me, the theaters in the malls are nothing more than Cathedrals of Consumption – fat people in fat chairs with cellphones and ringtones shoving junk food down their gullets while being force fed advertisements before movies, and getting more of it in shameless product placement during the movie when it comes on.

I look around and think, “when did popcorn and candy become NOT ENOUGH?” When did we start to need fried chicken, hot dogs, and pizza and build slots in the arms for trays of food? We need a goddamn TRAY for the amount of food we’re going to eat for the next 90 minutes?

Going to the movies is still an experience for me, and the crassness with which they’re packaged at most movie theaters really destroys the experience.

I used to enjoy going out to the movies a lot more than I do now. But with the cell phones, laser pointers and other annoyances, it’s better for me just to stay home, wait for the DVD, and watch it without so many disruptions.

I used to enjoy going out to the movies a lot more than I do now. But with the cell phones, laser pointers and other annoyances, it’s better for me just to stay home, wait for the DVD, and watch it without so many disruptions.

Yah, we have an art theater that does the same thing only they did something really cool a couple of years ago. They ran “How the West Was Won” in its original format. I think they ran it for over a year.

That may be true for you, but is not true of the movie-going population in general. If it were, you would expect a graph of the money made on any given day a movie is out to be relatively flat, with fluctuations based only on days that people are likely to have more free time, as people who had time to go to the movies chose between all currently available movies equally. Instead, you see huge spikes on opening weekend. And from what I’ve heard, this trend is increasing. More and more movies are having bigger opening weekends and more rapidly diminishing returns.

  1. Is talking in movie theaters really that bad? This is one that I will never understand. The only movies that I have seen where the levels of talking exceeded the norm were either really awful, or movies that targeted small children. Too be honest, people talking through White Chicks would not upset me. I must also admit that I tend to avoid going to see movies like Bring It On on Friday evenings because I know that the theater will be packed with teeny boppers. With regards to cell phones, I have not heard a phone go off in a theater since I was junior in high school (5 years ago).

  2. Movies are expensive but my friends and I always pay student rate. As far as we are concerned, movies only cost $6.50 and people still choose not to go. The only reason I see a lot of movies is because my best friend works in a cinema so we can go for free. We complain about crappy movies whether or not we have to pay. The cost of a movie ticket simply provides people with a quick and easy scale. Was the movie worth x dollars or not?

Is that even true? According to this site, the yearly domestic box office gross declined by 6.2% in 2005, but the last year before then that the industry saw a drop was 1991.

There were a lot of big jumps during those years, too, so perhaps things are simply evening out. The yearly gross has nearly doubled in the past fifteen years, and the YTD figures for 2006 are higher now than they were at this time in 2005.

Echoing iamthewalrus, it’s just a bunch of little things. Maybe the cost wouldn’t bother me if I knew it was going to be a great film. Maybe I’d watch an average film for less money and on my own schedule. Who here hasn’t been flipping channels, come across some lame movie on TBS or Comedy Central and watched it? But that’s because it’s free and you’re in your own home.

Going to the movies almost feels like a chore these days. You pick something from what’s showing (which always feels like choosing the least of the evils), have to make it to the theatre on time, pay a decent sum and rarely walk out feeling like you just saw something great. Unless it’s an effects driven film that “needs” to be seen on the big screen for all the wows and gasps, I’d rather just watch something on my couch or in my bed.