The Democratic Party Is Losing the Propaganda War (AM Radio)

Great Debates
161

Sacco and Vanzetti were both associated with an anarchist group that had blown up things, and had the dubious distinction of probably committing the first ‘suicide bombing’ on U.S. soil. When arrested, they were both carrying handguns. I’m thinking these guys weren’t your typical college radicals, y’know?

As far as I can tell, the whole political thing was stirred up by their lawyer, who went to the unions and others and started screaming that the two of them were set up on murder charges because they were radicals. Until that lawyer came along, not even Sacco and Vanzetti were claiming that.

But that’s about all I know about the trial. Maybe I’ll do some googling later on.

162

But that’s about all I know about the trial. Maybe I’ll do some googling later on.

Hey this google thing is great…I thought you were giving me a some kind of inside conservative dig…like search googling and get a cartoon GW giving me a razberry or something…Sometimes you just can’t help but gain something from the most unexpected source…and it wasn’t even shrunk and blue!

And now I have a whole new acesss to info to fuel my slobbering ranting and raving…Thanx Rand

163

I believe he was an anarchist, not a Communist. And far from hiding his affiliations at the trial, it was a major theme.

The ballistic evidence linking the pistol to the murder is hotly disputed.

Regards,
Shodan

164

I believe he was an anarchist, not a Communist. And far from hiding his affiliations at the trial, it was a major theme.

The ballistic evidence linking the pistol to the murder is hotly disputed.

Regards,
Shodan

It is really impossible to debate…But with Russia still sizzling, and a whole lot of the working class sharing their dreams of a equitable society, the term Communism hadn’t quite taken on the palor of evil lurking within as the mad bombing, baby eating anarchist had…it just made better press.

And when the caretaker of that national public record was W.R Hearst (not exactly a unionist’, communist’s or anarchist’s banner waver) I can draw an easy affirmation that they were wrongly executed…

I never have a better chance of being wrong, than when I’m sure I’m right…Rand

165

Outflanked Democrats Wonder How to Catch Up in Media Wars

166

Driving around Southern California today, I listened to over an hour of liberal programming–maybe 2 hours, from the Workers Independent News Service (http://www.laborradio.org/) and some program called “Peace Watch.” The station followed up by playing a Jim Hightower snippet, too.

I can see why Hightower flopped. The guy has a voice made for print media.

167

I’m laying odds that if the Democrats manage to get a television network started, it will be an absolute freaking disaster. Have you actually tried to watch Donahue? He’s their model for an ‘attack-dog liberal’ that they can put up against O’Reilly or Rush or someone. Donahue’s ratings are in the absolute cellar. His audience consists primarily of Marlo Thomas and the second from the left 21" Magnavox on the TV Wall at the Circuit City in Reno.

Mario Cuomo has an engaging speaking voice, gravitas, and a pit-bull personality like Rush’s. And no one wanted to listen to him. The message just isn’t that palatable to the public when you get into the details, I guess. Or perhaps it just depresses them, and most people don’t tune in to the radio to be depressed.

But there’s another issue here - the Democratic party is actively working towards building a network to advertise their views, and this is okay? Isn’t there an equal time requirement here?

I think what you’re seeing here is an end-run around the new campaign finance laws. I said on this board a year ago that one of the results of the campaign finance laws was going to be an increase in the power of the media, because free media coverage is a loophole around the financing laws.

Fox News may have a right-wing bias, but it sure as hell wasn’t created by the Republicans.

168

If I were a Democrat decision maker, and I wanted to find a radio personality, I’d turn to Representative Barney Frank from Massachussetts.

The guy’s at once an attack dog and a laugh riot.

Of course, chances are he’s gonna flop like the rest of them.

Presentation can only go so far when it’s the product that sucks.
I like the analogy Ann Coulter offers–she likens the Democratic inability to admit their problems to a meeting of senior management of a dog food company. The Chairman stands up and says “I don’t understand why we’re losing market share! We have the best labels, the best marketing, the best jingles, the best logo, the best shelf positioning, what’s the problem, people? Why aren’t we selling more dog food?”

After a long period of uncomfortable silence, someone at the back of the room raises his hand and says,
“Ummm, the dogs don’t like it.”
After Hightower flopped, after Cuomo, after Donahue, after governor Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown’s radio shows all flopped, after Randi Rhodes, after flop after flop, after getting embarrassed in the last election, you’d think they’d figure it out. Basic troubleshooting, here.

There was nothing wrong with Cuomo. He’s as entertaining and articulate as anyone.

The problem is the message.

169

I can’t fucking believe it. You guys call for attack-dog liberalism but when a conservative challenges you, you whine and waffle like mad. Here’s how it’s done, babies:

Lemur, you stupid sheep. Yeah, I’m talking to YOU! Don’t look around at the other posters here, YOU are the sheep. And the only way I’ll back down on that “sheep” term is if you can PROVE to me that you’re a millionaire. Because anybody who favors conservatives and Repugs, who isn’t ALSO a millionaire is not only a sheep but is getting sheared.

The people who run the Repug Party are about just one thing, sheeple Lemur, and that’s effecting a wealth transfer from the middle class to the ultra-wealthy as fast as possible. That explains their tax policies. That explains their indifference to recession. (The wealthy can ride out recessions and then pick up depressed stocks ultra-cheap, winding up richer than ever.)

You’re a sheep, Rush and Hannity’s followers are sheep, and if you want to call me a fucking liberal for pointing that out, you can, but you know, you ought to take a good look at all that wool in front of your eyes and wonder if there’s not some reason it’s there.

Cause it’s not just media heavies who need to be attack dog liberals, it’s ALL OF US. No more Mr. Nice Guys. Just in case you haven’t noticed, in all the elections lately, nice guys have been finishing last.

170

Hickory, the problem is not the message. The problem is that the Repugs have been buying up the media and confining liberal discourse to obscure Web sites like … like … THIS ONE!

Fox may not be OWNED by the Repugs, but it definitely and truly marches in lockstep with the Repug line, as does CNN to an increasing degree. Furthermore, what’s being passed off as liberal viewpionts in the mass media by conservatives are actually just objective stories – the economy really HAS tanked, the Catholic preists really HAVE been raping children, Enron and Worldcom really DO have links to the Bush admin. What conservatives call liberal bias is just some last tiny bit of objective reporting that hasn’t been snuffed out by the conservatives who actually role the media.

In short, you are completely and totally wrong in your assessment. It’s not that the Democrats have the wrong messages in play, it’s that the Repugs have taken over the playing field and they can’t get their message about our coke-snortin’ AWOL chickenhawk excuse for a President and his sad excuse for policies out.

171

And the above two messages are classic examples of what’s wrong with liberals: THEY DON’T GET IT. This class warfare BS just doesn’t resonate with the people any more. Keep trying it, and keep losing.

172

Sorry, EC, we have now taken over this web site, too. You are hereby ordered to clear any posts with me before posting. Unauthorized posting is prohibited!

You may think you’re anonymous, but we have your real identity from John Ashcroft’s secret dossier! If you attempt to post without Repuglican approval…you will regret it. Our vengeance will be swift and terrible! :eek: :eek: :eek:

173

And the above two messages are classic examples of what’s wrong with liberals: THEY DON’T GET IT. This class warfare BS just doesn’t resonate with the people any more. Keep trying it, and keep losing.

174

Well, go ahead and blame the “media” if you like. It won’t win you a single vote, but it’s probably a lot more comfortable than honestly confronting your own political shortcomings.

Your thesis, that the problem is not the message but the Republican-dominated media (I notice you offer precisely zero support for your claims), simply does not explain observable phenomena.

It does not explain why Gore carried areas which are major media centers, but faired poorly in nonmedia counties.

It does not explain–indeed, it seems to be falsified–by the failure of liberal talk show host after liberal talk show host–from Jim Hightower to Mario Cuomo to Jerry Brown to Phil Donohue, to attract and retain a national audience of listeners.

It does not explain why ABC retains Dan Rather.

It does not explain why Good Morning America (or the Today Show or whatever) retains Katie Couric.

But why let the facts get in the way of blaming “Anyone But a Democrat” for losing, eh?

What’s more, I think the failure of Democrat ideas in the competitive marketplace is compounded by the bitterness of their increasingly shrill and desperate rhetoric, which turns off more and more moderate voters.

175

Was J. Edgar Hoover a Repuglican? The facial resemblance is startling.

*Not that I have anything against pugs, except for the snuffling.

176

But Sam Stone himself clearly argued earlier in this thread that the media was dominated by conservatives.

Are there “non-media counties” in America? Hell, when my brother lived in Elimsport, PA, many of the neighbors had satellite dishes. Further, I recall listening to many baseball games on the radio (certainly a medium, in fact, one identified as rife with rightist vitriol).

I’m sure this will come as a surprise to Peter Jennings.

Have you presented any facts? I missed them, sorry. Oh, was the Dan Rather/ABC thing a fact?

Ah yes, the landslide of votes for Republicans grows larger with every telling. A number of more thoughtful and compelling hypotheses have been advanced earlier in this thread, by myself and others. They do make for interesting reading, if I do say so myself. You should check them out. Or believe what you asserted. It really doesn’t matter. Shrill and desperate, tee hee.

177

Whoa. Show me where I said, “The Media” is dominated by Republicans. Because it most assuredly is not.

The ‘institutional’ media is still firmly in the Democrat’s camp. Newspapers and TV networks, with the exception of Fox News. CNN has a distinct liberal bent. Dan Rather is unashamedly liberal. Something like 80-90% of the employees of newsroom are self-identified Democrats.

The “Newspaper of Record”, the New York Times, is almost laughably biased these days, especially on the editorial pages. But even its news coverage is slanted towards the Democrats.

What I said was, when you look past the big institutions into the smaller and less controlled media (the internet, talk radio, books, etc) you find that it is overwhelmingly Conservative/Libertarian. But let’s be clear - this is still the small leagues. Rush may have 5 million listeners per day, but Dan Rather gets 13 million. Ann Coulter may sell a couple of million copies of “Slander”, but the New York Times gets over a million readers a DAY.

178

Well, Sam Stone, I apologize if I misunderstood your comments. However, you said:

So you here have argued that the medium of print (at least in book form) is dominated by conservatives.

Okay, so now you have the medium of the internet.

And here you are arguing that there is no base for consumption of the product of liberal media. I don’t have a quote on hand of you suggesting that conservatives dominate the medium of radio, but I am sure that one must exist elsewhere in this thread (I don’t think anyone has contested that this is true). So you explicitly argued that conservatives dominate books, the internet, and (presumably) radio, and implied that there was no market for other liberal media. I took this to be an argument that conservatives dominate the media.

179

Anybody who does not believe the media is dominated by conservative interests is welcome to do a little thought experiment:

Remember the media reaction to:

the Monica Lewinsky affair
Chelsea Clinton’s lifestyle (by which I mean, it was a fairly sedate and proper lifestyle, but it got a lot of intense scrutiny)
Whitewater

Now, ask yourself, what would the media reaction had been like if:
A) Bill Clinton had been accused of stealing the 1996 election by having cronies on the Supreme Court in a manner that that was highly suspicious, as well as having votes suppressed by Democratic operatives in the key state in the election, of which his brother happened to be Governor, including decisions by the state’s Sec. of State that are clearly illegal.

B) Chelsea Clinton had been facing jail time for attempts to obtain liquor illegally because it was her third offense along those lines. Or if Chelsea had been facing jail for smuggling drugs into a rehab clinic she was forced into.

C) Bill Clinton had joined the National Guard to avoid the draft and then gone AWOL for many weeks during a time of war (which amounts to desertion.

D) Bill Clinton had been implicated in profiting from a crooked energy deal by a company on whose board of directors he served.

E) Bill Clinton had many former associates who claimed he used to do coke at parties and was well known to drink to excess frequently.

The thing you have to do is ask yourself “What kind of response would the media have had to these incidents, had they actually occurred to Bill Clinton and his relatives?” (They are, of course, all things that have occurred to George Bush and his relatives.) Think about all the media scrutiny his pot use got in college. Think of all the press Clinton’s draft avoidance got – imagine if there was proof that he went AWOL!

Don’t concern yourself with whether or not the allegations are true or not, just how much press would Clinton had gotten for the exact same things that Bush pretty much got a pass for.

Bush stole a U.S. presidential election, and while it got a lot of press, it didn’t get as much as Clinton’s blowjob.

I know that conservative partisans would never admit to it, but isn’t it obvious that the press has given Bush and his people a pass, or something very close to a pass, for things that would have had them savaging Clinton and his people for months on end? I’m saying OBVIOUS now, nothing subtle about it. This is powerful evidence of the media bias that conservative groups have created.

When Hickory or Sam says there’s no evidence of media bias, look hard at the way in which the media have behaved over the last decade or so, and work it out for yourselves. I feel confident that most people who are neutral on the subject will wind up agreeing with me.

180

And another thing. If the media had anything RESEMBLING a liberal bias, I believe they would have hounded Bush and Congress from pillar to post for voting themselves a big pay raise and then letting unemployment benefits run out for almost a million Americans over the Christmas holidays, during a time of rising unemployment.