If you (collectively) can’t catch the thousands, perhaps millions, of employers paying wages to illegal immigrants, how will the IRS suddely have the magical ability to find every cash payment in the country? Al Capone was just one bloke.
What makes you think anyone is seriously trying ?
This is the most sane post I’ve read so far.
I am a ‘lefty’.
I believe in gay marriage, legalized drugs and prostitution, not to mention equal opportunities for women. Oh, and I’m an atheïst.
I KNOW our Muslims already are threatening our homosexuals. I know there’s a blowing prohibition in Amsterdam as of last month. Thanks to heavily lobbying from muslim organisations. I know our women are called ‘whore’ when wearing mini-skirts.
Muslim girls are mutilated by cutting off their clitoris.
Women are being killed to protect the family ‘honor’
Yes, I KNOW these last two are not solely muslim atrocities, but they are done by muslims RIGHT HERE. RIGHT NOW.
So I’m just as baffled as you are as to WHY the ‘Left’ is embracing Islam.
It makes no sense at all.
Dead Badger wrote:
It is not.
Muslim male still get their brides out of Morocco or Turkey and muslim women do the same.
There are nearly no mixed marriages. And when there is, the partner becomes a muslim[a].
&
The Koran?
The Islam?
The muslim terrorists ‘hofstad group’ here, in the Netherlands, consists of [among others] Moroccan/Dutch and the son of an Turkish/American diplomat.
Theo van Gogh’s murderer is a Moroccan/Dutch.
The muslims who blew up your trains were Pakistani/English, the Madrid bombers were Morrocan/Spanish. The French rioteers who [besides burned cars] killed an invalid woman and a 63 year old man, were Algerian/French and Moroccan/French
All grew up in the country they attacked.
All are muslims.
And I’m glad you didn’t accuse the OP of xenophobia, because we all know which religion has the most xenophobes, homophobes, anti-semites and who dicriminates towards women, right?
I wish some of you get this into your thick skull:
I’m certainly not a xenophobe. Without going into too much details; I’ve had boyfriends from [amongst other countries/colors] Surinam [who was beautifully black] and from Indonesia [who was - as so delightfully named in this thread -] ‘brown’.
** I’m having problems with a very intolerant religion**. Okay?
Sal Ammoniac wrote
Yes.
But I’m afraid it’s too late.
Oh, I have ONE son.
Ought I to have had 23?
[GorillaMan & Der Trihs. Surely the subject about illegal immigrants is an entire different one?
I was speaking of immigrants who are willing to take jobs with lower pay/worse treatment/greater danger than the locals, legal or illegal. It was GorillaMan who brought the illegals up( without me actually noticing, I admit ).
Okay then. 
I still have to meet a muslim immigrant of today who’s willing to take jobs with lower pay/worse treatment/greater danger than the locals.
Au contraire, mon ami.
It’s the other way around, these days.
That’s right, bash the queers gratuitously, it always helps blow smoke in the public’s eyes. Even though you’ve just insulted your ideological mate, Pym Fortuyn. (did I spell that right?)
You realise that FGM is primarily practised in Africa as a hangover from older traditions, right, and not as a result of Islam? I don’t suppose we’ll be getting any condemnations out of you regarding “Africans” as a group, so how come you feel so content to use it as a condemnation of a religion which doesn’t even stipulate such horrors? FGM is horrific, as are honour killings, but they are reasons to condemn isolated criminals, not an entire people. Now, I believe the Netherlands has somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million Muslims. I can find a couple of sites that tell me FGM has been “reported” in the Netherlands, but no actual instances of it. I believe, therefore, that it has indeed occurred, and that is surely something to be deplored; however, I’m having a hard time seeing it as such as scourge as to warrant blanket depradations of a worldwide religion, the vast majority of whose adherents follow no such practice. The same goes for honour killings; certainly these are things to be singled out, prosecuted and stamped out. But you make out like they’re happening on street corners daily, with no evidence.
Way to miss the point. I guess, since you’re so convinced that nominal religion can so reliably be used to predict behaviour, that I can assume you’ll act just like, say, Myra Hindley. How could it be otherwise? You come from a predominantly Christian country. Yes, we all know how you “Christians” act. Me, too; just last week I was picketing gay weddings á la Fred Phelps; as a “Christian”, it’s what I like to do. Because, Lord knows, people worldwide can be assumed to act like the very worst of whatever group you can stuff them in to. It is the way of things.
You’re focusing unhealthily on one religion and blaming it for just about any perceived problem you can lay your hands on. I believe you when you say it’s not about colour. I see you got lots of people sticking up for you in a recent pit thread; I’m sure you’re a very nice person. But I have to say it seems you’re absolutely blinkered with respect to Islam. You observe the typical problems of immigration and poverty, see a common factor, and assume it is the cause. You go out of your way to associate anything bad you see with Islam, sometimes on the most tenuous of reasoning. You are, I’m afraid, xenophobic (which is not a synonym for racist, so it really doesn’t matter who you’ve dated). Whenever Muslims are mentioned (and frequently when they’re not), you come out and rant about how they’re ruining your country, and when challenged repeat these tawdry screeds with cliché upon cliché about arranged marriages and FGM. Now, I see, you’re complaining that they’re taking all the nice jobs, again without a hint of evidence; not even from one of those sites that breathlessly talks about global Jihad and secret service agents doing naughty things.
Well, you have to admit, it’s a little inconsistent to complain about the demographic death of your race and then expect other people to do something about it. If not you, who?
In the United States, companies are already required to report certain information about their hires, including the number of people employed, wages, hours worked, and plenty of detailed information. They report to the IRS, the federal Labor Department, and the labor departments in each state. Enforcement is not difficult. The problem is that the Republicans have made the federal Labor Department. It knows exactly which companies routinely break the law, but lacks means of enforcement. Companies like WalMart and Haliburton routinely ignore labor law, since the punishments are slap-on-the-wrist. If we restored real means of enforcement, companies would smarten up and start obeying the law.
As for Europe, my impression is that they already do a solid job of enforcing labor law.
It is certainly practiced among some of those of Somali descent in the Netherlands, which make up a small percentage of all Muslims in the country. FGM has never been practiced in either Turkey or Morocco, from which the majority hail.
At any rate…
So I have to ask - what’s your solution, or at least modifying correction to this problem you perceive?
- Tamerlane
Go back on a red meat diet? A little new conquest to get the blood stirring? Maybe some internal strife, perhaps a new pan-European conflict? I think the problem with Europe is that they have been good to long…and its killing them! ( 
)
Personally I don’t think this is a ‘problem’…unless the Europeans MAKE it a problem. Immigration and integration are the key for them to continue as they always have. It works for the US after all, why not Europe too? ‘They’ just need to figure out the optimal way to bring in immigrants and integrate them into their society. After all, the folks currently occupying ‘Europe’ originally swiped that land and displaced or obsorbed the native populations, so their is nothing sacred about ‘Frence’ folks having to live in France (for example)…no?
-XT
If I’m not mistaken, it’s you, in a previous related thread, who had dug up figures showing that the birthrate in several muslim countries was indeed collapsing.
Besides, these societies evolve culturally, and anyway second, third, etc… generation immigrants don’t keep the values of their grandfathers (in particular religious practice) . Immigrants from third world countries aren’t necessarily muslim, either. Currently, the country sending the largest number of immigrants to France is China, while the traditionnal immigration from north afica is much lower than it used to. Also, there’s no reason to assume that the shrinking population in European countries will be fully replaced by immigrants. Finally, second/third generation immigrants don’t have a very significantly higher birthrate.
I’m sure sure Islam will beome more visible in western countries, and more accepted as a part of everyday life. I noticed some small but significant signs of it, during the last years in France. But Europe changed into a muslim, sharia-led society? I don’t buy it for the foreseable future (say, 40 years). Besides that, it’s just pointless to make predictions, too much things could happen and change. The OP cite refers to the end of the century, but for all we know, by this time the major world power could be the United Panarab Republic, where 42% of the population is atheist and 17% buddhist according to mind-reading based pools and where meat-eaters are persecuted. Or essentially anything else, including things that wouldn’t ever occur to us. Things change on the long term. A lot. Really a lot. And never as expected.
The important word here being “extremist”. Andall your cite refers to members of terrorist networks, hardly representative of the muslim population. I mean, I sometimes wonder if you know actual, blood and flesh, muslims. There are plenty of them in my neighborhood. Generally, you’ll find them drinking a beer at the local cafe, not plotting the implementation of the Shariah. That would be first generation immigrants.
Second generation? Bah… Most of them are as knowledgeable about Islam as your average catholic born frenchman is about catholicism. I mean, really not much. I’m sure many of them couldn’t even tell me where is the nearest mosque (actually, while writing this I remember the interview of members of a muslim organization who tried to help during the riots, and who were saying, dissapointed, essentially exactly that. That these young guys though muslims in name, were completely estranged to their supposed religion, and precisely didn’t even know there was a mosque in their “cité”).
Yeah, yeah, I know. There are some traditionnalists, out there. Some. Several, at least. Some french people have been killed during the Hadj, following a hotel collaspe in Mecca, and they showed today on the evening news a gathering of their family and friends praying together. These are the true believers. Very threatening. I mean, they go to pilgrimages, they pray and all when their relative die… I’d rather dig a shelter and stockpile ammunitions.
Or breed to help prevent our foretold doom, maybe? There’s this Algerian girl I…err… Not a good plan, I guess. I don’t want to risk raising little Jihadists…
That’s a real problem. ** Treis ** in a following post, mentions Russia. We’re going to run out of hot blonde slavic babes. Annoying to say the least (well, not for you, of course, but still…).
I should mail-order and marry one while there are some left and breed, breed, breed… Sounds like a very good anti-decline plan.
Most probably yes, to some extent. The (relatively) high birthrate in France is generally attributed to public policies favoring parents, and the most often mentionned is quite simple : the wide availbility of essentially free public day care centers.
In Germany, where the birthrate is much lower, I understand that a mother is strongly expected to quit working for at least some years to take care of her kids. Lack of alternatives and social pressures result in… actually women not being very willing to have children. While a french mother is usually expected to quit for some months and then resume working.
Your mistake is assuming that they actually pray five time a day…
But this is not the topic of your thread… Or maybe it is and it’s only an unfortunate happenstance that made you choose a rambling about muslims taking over as your cite?
Err… Maybe because we know that the kind of people and events you mention pretending they’re representative of the muslim population really aren’t at all?
Me too. And weirdly enough, I’m still not worried.
Gosh darn it! FGM is not an ‘Islamic thing.’ It is unknown amongst most Muslims and Muslim countries. It is an ‘African thing,’ practiced (I suppose) by people of all sorts of religions.
There is enough stuff out there people can say about Islam, but we cannot hang FGM on it.
As the two cultures come into closer contact, it is critical we learn more about one another. Spreading rumors and half-truths does not help.