Satan, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Mephistopheles, and so on…
Do all these names refer to one entity, or do each of these names refer to different entities?
There are as many different theological interpretations of evil as there are theologies.
I can only speak for the theology that I grew up with, which believed that there was a head devil (Satan) and then his minions. Some of his assistant devils included fallen angels, of which Lucifer was the ringleader.
As for Beelzebub, Mephistopholes, Old Scratch, etc., different traditions, different interpretations.
I believe that all the names you’ve mentioned refer to one guy. His name is Brian, he works at a record company, and he is gonna marry Drain Bead…
No seriously, I believe they do refer to one entity.
So in your theology, Satan is not a fallen angel, but rather is Lucifer’s superior. Therefore the two are different entities.
Since Lucifer was a fallen angel, did Satan exist before Lucifer? Where did Satan come from?
I understand it is all a matter of beliefs. Different religions have different interpretations. Indeed even within religions there are different viewpoints.
You rang?
Yer pal,
Satan
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7624 cigarettes not smoked, saving $953.11.
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I slept with a moderator!*
I think you’re misunderstanding kunilou. I believe judeo-christian mythology is that Lucifer raised an army of angels against God, who then layed the smack down, and sent Lucifer and his minions down the Hell to be in charge of that, at which point his name changed to Satan. So Satan and Lucifer refer to the same fallen angel.
Rough answer, no doubt larded with bad spelling:
“Satan” derives from “shitan,” “enemy.” Satan makes a few brief appearances in the Hebrew Bible to test the faithful. It’s worth noting that he follows God’s orders in the Book of Job. This character was later conflated with the serpent in Eden and most likely with the amorphous Zoroastrian bogey called the Lie into the figure we all know and hate today.
In the medieval period a myth developed around this figure. As it goes, the angel Lucifer (“light-bearer”=Venus, the Morning/Evening Star) leads a revolt against God before the Creation. He is cast out and becomes Satan. Where did he and all these other angels come from? Don’t ask me.
Other Biblical bad words come into play as satanic names. “Beelzebub” comes from “baal zevuv”, “lord of the flies”, and was a sarcastic reference to the Canaanite Baal. As the origianl false god, he came to be equated with Satan. “Mammon” originally meant “money,” but was referred to in such a personal way that the word was mistaken for a name, and sometimes still is. The Eden serpent leads into the dragon of Revelation.
“Mephistopheles” is of uncertain origin, but seems to be tied to Faust, if not in the past, definitely today (In Marlowe’s Doctor Faustus he, Beelzebub, and Lucifer are separate characters. The word “devil” stems from the Greek for “slanderer.” Other names are out there: the Dickens, Old Scratch, Old Roger, George Will, etc.
Apologies in advance for any mistakes, this is off the cuff. CF John Milton’s Paradise Lost for a better explic.
According to a hebrew text called the Pseudogriffida <I’m certain I spelled it incorrectly> which is a book of angels and demons, giving names and attributes for all spiritual beings mentioned in the old testament, “Satan” is a rank of angel who sided with Lucifer in the war against God. Lucifer was a kind of Satan but was/is not the only one.
Also there is one New Testament version of the three days Jesus spent in the pit making those who had been taken there free and changing the power structure of hell around. Meaning whoever is in charge of Hell now is not the original boss but rather an apointee to the position.
Then we can go to linguistices. "Satan" is not a name but rather a word meaning "Adversary" which would apply to anyone realy but specifically referring to all those angels who sided with Lucifer against the throne of Heaven/Paradise.
Lucifer-Light Bringer (some say this refers to him being the one who created the sun on God's behalf. Like a sub-contractor. After all, the angels must have a purpose and doing the leg work for the man is probably a good a reason as any).
Baelzebob or Ba'al- Lord of lies and flies. Some people refer to this guy as Lucifer's right hand man and others refer to him as the original gatekeeper. This guy has a long history and has a special relationship with a person named------>
Lilith: Voice of temptation. Story goes like this. Adam and Eve are chliing out in the gardern and this pisses off Ba'al who approaches this she-demon and tells her "hey, you get them to screw up and I'll promote you.". So this she-demon Lilith crawls into the mouth of a serpent and whispers to Eve "hey baby, eat this pomegranite it really kicks ass!". Etc and so on, you know the rest of the story. Lilith isn't a major player after that but her use in a major event in connection with ol' Bob illustrates his status as a player.
Other names such as "Scratch" and "Ol' Nick" are cultural in origin and have to do with the assimilation of other belief systems such as African VooDoo and mis-translations or other cultures that had demonic entities that were close enough to the Judeo Christian devils that the missionaries just said "yeah, that Woomba Ooga guy is the same guy I'm talking about.".
Reverend zen101
Sigh
Satan is the one and only name of the archangel who began the revolt in Heaven against God and thusly was cast out. Lucifer was not an angel/devil/demon or whatever at all, but rather the term used for a Babylonian king in the book of Isaiah. Neba-whatshisname and I’m nowhere where I can look up the spelling at the moment. Anyway, while popular belief and misguided heavy metal bands might think that Lucifer = Satan, it’s not the case. Read the passage in question and it’s very obvious who is being spoken of and that it’s not Satan. For that matter, the Old Testament makes no mention of evil fallen angels. The only pseudpigraphical reference I can even think of to fallen angels are those angels who slept with mortal women in Genesis and according to the Book of Enoch are enchained in a layer of Heaven (note: not in Hell). Again, I’m without my texts, but the OT actually makes mention of God controlling evil (unclean, foul, whatever your version of the Bible says) spirits. Satan walks in on God unmolested while God holds court in the book of Job. Satan acts on God’s behalf several times in the Old Testament. In other words, the OT Satan is not a fallen angel but rather an agent of God acting on God’s behalf and with his permission to tempt and punish several people in the Old Testament (Job and Balaam come immediately to mind).
As for the other names of “Satan”, most are borrowed from other faiths (mainly Middle Eastern) and are the names of various personages and deities in those systems. It was common practice to demonize other faiths by saying that their gods were false and were actually agents of Satan.
I could argue all of this more properly later on from home, but in the meantime wanted to clear up a few things and throw some historical reality into all this. Note that I’m not saying that I believe or disbelieve any of this and am not interested in a Great Debate on theology, but rather actual theological references to the point in question.
Just to expand on the above about the origins of Lucifer:
The King James Version of Isaiah 14:12-13 reads:
This was later interpreted as referring to the revolt of an archangel who was then cast out of heaven, but as Jophiel notes originally seems to have been a reference to the flattering titles bestowed upon the kings of Babylonia (I believe Isaac Asimov compares it to Louis XIV being referred to as the “Sun-King” in his Guide to the Bible).
The whole demonology thing became much more elaborated in the Apocrypha (Catholic Deutero-Canonical works; not accepted by Jews or Protestants as part of the Bible, but considered part of the Old Testament by Catholics). The Apocryphal works, chronologically, were written before the New Testament but after the books accepted by Jews and Protestants into the Old Testament. The book of Daniel (one of the last, or maybe even the very last, IIRC, books to be accepted into the Jewish canon) also has lots of rather obscure apocalyptic language which could be taken to be descriptions of battles in heaven between the forces of good and evil. This smacks of Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Persian Empire which took over Babylonia and restored the Jews there from their captivity back to Israel, so lots of people have suggested Zoroastrian influence on later Jewish thought regarding angelic hosts, rebellious archangels, and so on. To give the comic book level of theological explication, Zoroastrianism had (or has, since there are still a few Zoroastrians around) an elaborate dualistic theology in which the supreme good guy, Ahura Mazda, battles it out with the supreme bad guy, Ahriman, with both having elaborate hierarchies of lesser assistants and helpers. (Again elaborating on stuff already mentioned in this thread.) There are also assorted references to demonic possession in the New Testament, the whole “antichrist” thing (variously interpreted as the Antichrist, a supernatural anti-Messiah, or as just a reference to various enemies of Christianity) from the epistles of John, and finally an extensive mythology of a war in heaven and battles between good and evil angels in Revelation. (See, for example, Revelation 12:6-8, which talks of the archangel Michael leading the hosts of heaven against the rebel angelic forces of the “dragon”.)
OK, I’m still a little confused. So where does Bill Gates fit into this picture?
I’ve only looked into angelology and demonology but a little, and I can already tell you that however the big picture fits together, it’s very different from how the man in the street fits it together. Unfortunately, I don’t know what to take as authoritative. I have Davidson’s Dictionary of Angels, which is a fascinating read, but he’s clearly not trying to sort out anything like a clear, comprehensive picture. He’s just bringing together a lot of lore, without really going into how to evaluate the wildly varying sources he uses.
However, again, it’s fascinating stuff, and I’d recommend it to anybody as a hobby. Just be careful about taking a stand in public about who was what, when and what happened, because I swear to Ba’al, Angelology nerds are worse than comic book nerds.
Thanks, ME, for the link. It’s worth noting that the entire bit that mentions Lucifer is part of a larger statement and that statement is preceeded with Isaiah 14:3-4, On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and cruel bondage, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon.
In other words, the bit about falling from heaven and being the morning star is directed to a mortal (the king of Babylon). It is not directed to any preternatural being.
As I said, Satan is Satan and Satan alone. Satan was not the serpent in the Garden (a fairly recent Christian take on it, not a traditional Jewish take), nor is he Lucifer. You could even make a decent arguement that Satan did not fall until sometime between the Old and New Testaments were written, seeing as how the Old Testament never makes mention to Satan as fallen, nor to any strife in Heaven. You’d think that sort of thing would be newsworthy enough to make Old Testament scripture.
Johnny, you’re right about the Davidson book. There are some other books that do a better job of trying to make a big picture, but it’s only one man’s way to piecing together all the lore and even then, you’re forced to note inconsistancies. Much of the problem comes from the fact that a lot of angelic lore, especially in regards to Christianity, was determined somewhere between 200-400AD by theologians and priests who weren’t using scriptural texts (or even apocryphal or psedipigraphical) to determine these things but rather their own visions and concepts of Christ and religion. Therefore, not a whole lot of effort was given to making it all work as a grand picture.
And yeah, we are the worst 
**Chronos wrote:
OK, I’m still a little confused. So where does Bill Gates fit into this picture?**
Oh, Chronos don’t you remember your Bible, just as the Flood was starting, the WINDOWS of Heaven opened up and covered the earth?
On a slightly more serious note, exactly how does this War in Heaven fit in? I’ve never seen it in the New Testament or the Torah. In fact the only reference I know if it, is from Milton’s Paradise Lost. And how did it become imbedded in J/C mythology?
The reference to the War is in the Book of Revelation, most notably 12:7-9 – And there was a war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down – that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.(NIV)
Later, in chapter 20, it mentions Satan (as the dragon) being enchained for a thousand years, after which he must be released “for a short time”. The odd thing is that if this prophecy is taken as something to happen in the future, then the War hasn’t begun yet. Needless to say, according to Christian thought, it has. In that case, the thousand years of enchainment are long over and Satan must have been set loose a long time ago since the rest of the Revelation hasn’t occured yet. Don’t ask me to explain it.
Chronos: I got yer Bill Gates right here! 