The Divorce

I use the SDMB as a journal and have for 20 years - from stories about being a new dad to issues regarding my career to just reminiscing about shit that’s happened in my life, I write my stories and not only store them here, but send out links to interested parties. “Oh, you want to hear about what I was doing during the snowstorm? You can read about it here”. If you know me to have my cell phone #, you’ve very likely been texted SDMB links, it’s just a fact. And even more so with the new format which I find much easier to use. I do have a lot of those “shared link” badges and have been metaphorically earning them for years.

Anyway, I’m ready to write about my divorce. The following is, of course, my perspective. My ex will have her perspective as well. Feel free to ask questions knowing that I feel equally free not to answer them if I don’t want to. And, for those of you worried, the following isn’t vindictive. It isn’t ugly. At least, I hope it isn’t.

Endings, like beginnings, have no real set definitive time. We may think they do, especially those who like certainty and answers, but even a death starts with the decisions made before dying and continues with the impact on others afterwards. But, we like narratives and, as such, like clean endings and beginnings.

But sometimes that’s not possible.

My marriage ended on December 24th, 2019 when the judge granted us the divorce I sued my wife for. It ended on April 9th, 2021, when I was forced to evict my ex-wife’s stuff from my house. It ended on June 6th, 2019 when we finalized the property settlement. It ended on March 3rd, 2019 when I found the journal. It ended on December 16, 2018, when Laura asked me for the divorce. It ended when she had the affair earlier that year. It ended when I, or my daughter, did whatever we did which broke her to have said affair. It ended when we got together, two people with very different expectations in life who never thought to talk about them. It ended before we met, when those expectations were installed in us.

… and, in one very important way, it will never end, my ex wife and I talking just this morning about the child we raised together.

Laura and I met in 1987 @ Georgia Southern University, dated for 3 months, broke up for 15 months, got back together for 29 years. We both transferred to the University of Georgia when I ran into her as we were entering/exiting the same bus, and that, ladies and gentlemen, was that. It was a sunny day and her lovely eyes, always with that hint of uncertainty, caught my attention again as they did at GSU. If you want to know what Laura looked like at the time, while keeping her privacy, I can say that when my daughter saw this photo of Katarina Witt, she gasped at the similarity to her mother. Especially the eyes.

Got engaged. Moved in together. Got married (really, our wedding should be a copyrighted JohnT™ story, guys, you need to bug me for this one). Bought our first house, a duplex in the suburban Atlanta city of Lawrenceville, Georgia, we rented one half, the other we lived in. Not a bad gig. For the most part, especially post-2000, we worked in the family business, which I briefly discuss in a thread which has become a private project. More on this later.

The problem was, and we were too young to see this though my grandmother made mention of it, was that we were of completely different backgrounds. My family was, completely and 100%, totally made up of what I call strivers, the subset of middle-class people who are always striving, working, and plotting on joining the upper middle classes or even the upper classes. The only possible exception to this was my father, who was naturally lazy, but had the fortune of marrying women who had no problem kicking ass making him succeed beyond his natural level… and when he passed away he left behind a business with $20 million in annual revenue and a 12% profit margin, four kids whom (at the time) were happily married… so at least he was able to recognize a psychological gap in his life and fill it. And, to make things worse for Laura… we could be mean. Especially my mother’s side of the family and, later, my stepmother.

My wife’s family was different. Because of situations beyond this thread, they were almost the opposite - very mild, very considerate, very nice, and as a result Laura is filled with a compulsion to be nice, non-confrontational, and extremely helpful. Very smart, well educated, but too gentle to really understand what she was getting into when she got involved with my family. And my grandmother understood this.

What I’m saying here is… I don’t blame Laura. We can be intense, and Laura went through 20 years of… now looking back on it… just insane pressures that one wouldn’t expect in a normal marriage. Like the time my parents demanded that she and I commit insurance fraud for their benefit. Or how her wedding had more of my father’s business partners than her family members. Or having a daughter with the same genetic disposition as my uncle, a person so intense and easily angered my grandparents sent him to a private Jesuit school in Pennsylvania at the age of 12 because they could not handle him any more. Nothing prepared her for what it was going to be like, marrying a, and marrying into, a family of psychologically damaged workaholics. The fact she lasted as long as she did is a testament to her love for me and Sophia, and dedication to her principles.

And being married to me couldn’t have been easy. I traveled a lot for the family business, I got angry easy (some Entitled Conservative White Guy Syndrome™, some a likely genetic/environmental disposition to anger), I was imbued with the typical selfishness of the young man, and I’m sure I was pretty wild - smart as hell, but never really raised, there were a lot of edges which needed to be smoothed, and lord knows it was difficult for her, especially given her nature. But, to her credit, she tried and did a great job making me a better person.

When we moved to Knoxville along with the family business in 1999/2000, we had a child and then the tumultuous years began - my stepmother became more involved in the business, she was an absolutely abusive manager/person, and from 2002-2004, long story short:

1. Quit the family business
2. Bought out a competitor
3. Lobbed bids at my parents clients, winning some, losing far more
  1. Going broke.

(As I mentioned, I have an anger issue. I once got publically sick on First Communion wine and have carried such a grudge I haven’t tasted alcohol since. I know I keep harpin)

Laura, it goes without saying, was completely unprepared for any of the above. 3 years of 100 hour weeks on my part, finally failing sometime in 2004, early 2005 with my parents rehiring me (my Dad saying “Well, at least you learned a lot of lessons on someone else’s dime”, which was true enough it drew a laugh), going through the complete emotional journey of watching your husband seemingly sabotage his life.

But… in my family… you just did stuff like this. As a teenager, my older sister refused to talk to my father for 3 years because of an honor issue. If one of us pissed you off, you let the other know. And if you went to extremes, well, won’t be the first time in our experience (sending your 12yo to Jesuit school), won’t be the last (deciding to cold-shoulder your father for years).

What I’m saying is that while the Venn diagram of expected familial interaction norms may have touched between my ex and myself, there sure as hell wasn’t a lot of overlap. And that’s an issue when raising a family.

(And for those of you worrying along these lines, excepting Stepmother #1 (who didn’t last long) and her whole family, who was just trash (the 1970s were my fathers nadir, no doubt about it), there were no sexual or addiction issues at play here, we were just really intense strivers with a strong Calvinist streak installed in us by my maternal grandmother of Scottish descent and a series of striving women my father married. Good times!)

Stepmother #2, Jan, was of the same cloth as my first two mothers - she kicked Dad’s ass, was just as much a striver as my grandmother, and had her own psychological issues as well, with my armchair psychological diagnosis being narcissistic personality disorder. But Jan just didn’t limit her ass kicking to Dad, she kicked everyone around her, regardless of how much they needed her, or she needed them. And the more she kicked… for about 20 years. the time she was with my father… the more successful she became. So she fit in the Venn diagram, but she also moved the Overton window of viciousness.

… and this was the world Laura married into.

Eventually, in 2007, my father passed away (another story™ or three, OMG) in the same year Steve Jobs drove a stake through the heart of Dad’s industry (telephone directories). I stayed another year at the family business, and in the depths of the Great Recession, January 2009, sent out a whopping 5 resumes, one of which caught me a very nice position in San Antonio, Texas, a city about which everyone had nothing but positive things to say. So I accepted the job and we moved out here by April, 2009, Sophia starting the Catholic school she would continue in for the next 6 years.

We did a lot better in SA than in Knoxville. Away from the toxic family environment we made some decisions on how we wanted to introduce ourselves to SA society and, lucky us, became a very early supporter of the man who is currently Mayor. We also got into volunteering, 99% of this on Laura’s urging - partly as a thing to do for Sophia’s development, also non-profits were a world Laura didn’t have the freedom to enter while in Knoxville. And Laura did very, very well, and by extension, Sophia… and, yes, myself… as well. Even nominated for volunteering awards, got to go to fancy dinners, all that.

And sometime between 2014 - 2017, it all fell apart.

And here, dear reader, is where I disappoint you. I’m not going into a retelling of the above years. It’s just too painful and personal (like the rest of this isn’t?, you ask) and the ladies deserve their privacy too. But, a short list of issues would include increasing financial pressures, an increasingly distant and frantic husband with a derailed career, a daughter who worked out her puberty issues via such a level of vitriol it was devastating to Laura and concerning to me, and a couple who had problems communicating because the discussion would turn into an argument and the argument would spiral to being about the argument, then it would spiral to being about correcting something said within the argument, and then it would spiral to correcting the correction of that thing said earlier… and so on, and so on. And, because of this habit, the couple stopped speaking of things important.

In short, a fairly typical and common recipe for marital disaster. Tolstoy was simply fucking wrong, guys and gals - many unhappy families are exactly alike.

When the divorce was asked for in December, 2018, I had but one (again, common) request - that we hold off on telling Sophia until after the 2018 holidays, that we tell her in January. The request was a typical “It’s not me, it’s you” divorce ask, referencing many of the things above with a lot of focus on arguments I had with Sophia (a Jr in High School at this time) and, oddly, my emphatic anti-Trump stance. And, for about a month, that’s how things went.

Until Sophia found the journal.

Mid January, 2019. Sunday night. I was asleep. Sophia sees a black book she noticed her mother carrying around for the past weeks. Mom leaves, goes to bathroom, something. Sophia grabs the book and starts reading. And discovers that her mother kept a (G-rated, thankfully) hand-written journal of her affair. And, Sophia being Sophia, immediately brings it up to an ashen-faced Laura as soon as Laura returns.

I missed the ensuing argument, but a little after 12am I was awakened by my wife who asked me “You do know I’m having an affair, right?”

Well, now I know, yes, but that detail was not referenced a month earlier. And she sits there and confesses, giving me the guys name, etc. And that changed, well, everything.

Next day. Sophia is enraged. She swears that she will hate her mother on my behalf for all time, how could she do this, etc etc etc. And, the three of us at a diner, with the determination of a child who once convinced a man to upgrade his suite at the Beverly Hills Plaza so she can join them on their vacation at their expense (another story™), she enacted her plan to Destroy Mom. Just lashing her with that tongue of hers, me thinking of the misery ahead if I went the same route my friends did, that I saw in movies, of what many expected of me - what would happen if I decided to destroy Laura, enact my revenge, etc etc etc.

And that I could not have. So I made a decision sitting there in that Denny’s: This marriage was over. Not going to fight it, not going to try to win her back, the only thing I could do is calm down my daughter and, effectively, game plan the transition. There’s no blame here - if I was a fantastic husband we would not be at this point. So, I thought, let’s just admit we had a 30 year run which had exhausted its course, our kid was old enough so that custody isn’t a concern, let’s just accept reality and move the three of us to the next stage.

Lets. Not. Fight.

Sitting there, I told Sophia that her intervention was neither wanted nor desired, nor was it done to do me any favors but solely to act out her anger at her mother, so drop the damned act, OK? This may be of Sophia, but not about Sophia. In time, every child learns that their parents are just regular people, bumbling along like everyone else, and Sophia learned this in the same manner which some of her friends have learned about their parents. I don’t know what else to say, but while we will no longer be married, the three of us will always be a family.

We just talked, I speaking to the above disjointed paragraph’s themes, reinforcing the same point: “Continue your life, we will work this out among ourselves, and we will minimize any disruption to Sophia and her goals and dreams.”

So I gave up the anger. Gave up the revenge. Sophia got the message. The relationship between Sophia and her mother was saved. It was touch and go for a few weeks, but Sophia wisely (heh) came around. Being a typical scorned man and joining Sophia on her revenge quest against her own mother would have destroyed all of us in one form or another, I will go to my grave convinced of this.

And as for the affair itself, for a person as fundamentally decent as my ex-wife is, to go to this extreme was, in my mind, a bigger indictment of me than it was of her. (And don’t argue me out of this, I know the people involved more than you do.)

By June of 2019 we had worked out the property settlement. I got the house, the car, and custody. Laura didn’t get the house because the house was purchased by my inheritance trust, and was my sole property. She didn’t get the car because she couldn’t afford it. She couldn’t afford it because Laura never had a full time job in her life, had no savings, had no assets, and didn’t even have a career - the first salaried position she held came to her a month prior to her 50th birthday, 4 months after she asked for the divorce. And custody, really in name only, as Sophia was going to be 18 when the court date occurred, and would be out of high school 5 months after that.

Had she done a bit of prep work prior to the divorce, she would’ve known this would have been the outcome - but she preferred talking to friends than experts, and that helped her not in the least. At one point, I even called a lawyer on her behalf and asked the lawyer to call Laura back, telling Pam (the lawyer, a mutual friend of ours) that Laura really didn’t know what she was doing and really, really needed some legal advice. And, to be honest with myself, I didn’t want to be the one who reminded Laura that she has very little in joint assets.

The divorce became official Christmas Eve, 2019 - we got a lawyer who put the property agreement in the proper legal forms, met before a judge who was a friend of my (soon to be) ex-wife’s, and, in a case which took 4 minutes to adjudicate, that was that.

Laura stayed in the house, with the agreement being that Laura was to move out sometime in the summer of 2020. Well, COVID hit, Sophia’s senior year was ruined, and having Laura there was a godsend for the both of them. But, eventually, high school graduation came… and went… and Sophia went to St John’s University in NYC… and still Laura stayed… and, eventually, I had to evict her from the home she asked to leave 2 years before.

When I look back of the 32 years we were together, we had 22-25 good to fantastic years, 2-4 blah years, and the rest were just wretched. We raised a brilliant young lady who is determined to make her way in the toughest city in America. Laura made me a better person. I hope I made her a better person. I miss her. I’m glad she’s gone. And while I never, ever planned for things to go as they did, I will always be grateful that Laura and I ended our time together by repairing damage, not creating more.

Sorry about your trouble but it sounds like you’re doing the best you can.

And, wow. You are an excellent writer. Thought I was reading the intro to a novel. I hope that’s not offensive considering that it’s so personal.

I am truly sorry to hear you’ve gone through a divorce. It’s hard for me to imagine the heartache, stress, and struggle you and your family has gone through. Good luck to you all.

You did right by your daughter. I’ve seen it go the other way so many times it makes me sick. Particularly my husband’s parents’ divorce who were so bitter toward one another that neither of them had their daughter’s best interest in mind. Nearly destroyed the poor girl and took an incredible toll on my husband.

If a marriage lasts for 29 years, can it really be said to be a failure? It sounds like it only took a downturn in the last few years.

Some of these issues about conflicting backgrounds remind me of my husband’s parents and to a lesser extent the two of us. My husband’s extended family is extraordinarily wealthy. They have a small empire that covers the tri-county area and their name is all over everything around here. They use money to show love and they use it to control. And I would say they have no higher value than keeping up appearances. It was a very, very hard adjustment for my husband’s mother and they treated her like garbage (for some reasons, I have to admit, she brought on herself.) They offered her money to abort my husband. My husband’s father tried to separate from the family business and his father blacklisted him so he had to go crawling back. He didn’t stand up for his wife even when they called her a whore to her face. So after 17 years this took a toll.

For me it was a difficult adjustment because of the ostentatious displays of wealth and the size of my husband’s family. I have less than ten living family members, he has about 100-300 depending on who you count. I came from a working class background and emancipated when I was 17 years old. I am estranged from my own parents. It took me a long time being in his family where I didn’t feel like I was just playing dress-up and plastering on a fake smile while secretly loathing them. It took me years before I began to realize they are not some monolithic entity and I have since made friends with some of them. His cousins in particular are pretty cool.

But my husband bucked family tradition from the beginning. He left Catholism, refused to go into business, married a Buddhist atheist and couldn’t care less about being rich. And he would never tolerate the level of disrespect they showed toward his mother, so it hasn’t been a major point of conflict between us.

Anyway, I get how such differences can put a strain on things.

Very mature response on your part. Sounds like you all, as a family, will do okay.

Is it really a divorce until and unless someone is actually dead, or at the very minimum forever-dead-to-you?

Asking for a friend.

Does she have a place to live now, I hope?

I’m not saying that your ex-wife shouldn’t be responsible for her own life and her own choices. But it does sound possible to interpret your story as a tale of a wife who took on handling all the domestic/caregiving/social side of a marriage where the husband spent all his time earning all the money, and thus ended up with no claim to money or assets in her own name when the marriage ended.

I mean, the magnanimity about her infidelity does sound like an ethical and wise choice, but the possible subtextual whisper of “and now the faithless improvident bitch is starving in the gutter, and serve her right” tends to undercut that a little bit.

It sounds like a hard situation all around. My partner working 100 hours a week would be a deal breaker for me. Especially with kids.

She’s living with the guy she left me for. Laura is building a house (which is quite different than her original post-divorce plans), the house construction has been delayed, and I was as patient as I could be. She had 2 years to plan all this- we are talking the span from summer 2018 to fall 2020, after all.

If I wanted to be vindictive, I would’ve kicked her out as soon as legally possible, to be honest.

Best wishes, and your story is very well written.

I see. Thank you for the reassurance about what was certainly none of my business, but the apparent open-endedness of the outcome seemed a little bit worrisome!

(really, our wedding should be a copyrighted JohnT™ story, guys, you need to bug me for this one)

Consider yourself bugged. But no hurry (one of us will bug you this summer, someone else in the fall…).

And thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

I’ll second that, wholeheartedly. Laura will always be Sophia’s mother (Captain Obvious speaks), and Sophia will always see her throughout graduation, weddings, childbirths, etc etc.

[quote=“JohnT, post:2, topic:940550, full:true”]And as for the affair itself, for a person as fundamentally decent as my ex-wife is, to go to this extreme was, in my mind, a bigger indictment of me than it was of her. (And don’t argue me out of this, I know the people involved more than you do.)
[/quote]

I’ll accept this self indictment, but this tells me you are quite honest about yourself.

I am sorry you are going through this John. Thank you for sharing your eloquently-written experience.

If I can share one suggestion based on my own divorce experience, it’s that Sophia is truly the victim here, and if you can help her through this and help her to perhaps be able to forgive her mother, in the long run it may be best for her and she won’t have to spend thou$and$ in therapy sessions. Plus, it will help her when (and if) she has her own relationships, and family.

And when you’re dealing with Laura, if there’s ever any anger in you, try to take the high road and not lash out. You might think you’d feel better, and perhaps in the short term that might be true, but it may be best in the long run for all three of you.

I was crushed when ‘wife version1.0’ wanted a divorce. My two boys were 12 and 10 at the time, and my daughter was 8. I never thought I’d be friends with her but now, 25 years later, we are on friendly terms and we meet for lunch a few times a year. Mostly to talk about the kids. It’s nice. Her father is going through a tough spell right now and I still consider him family, and I help.

It sounds like you’re the kind of guy who’d do these things. And they aren’t easy to do, but food for you.

And who knows? You might, like I did, find a wife version 2.0 that’s a significant upgrade.

I send good thoughts and energies out to you and Sophia and Laura about this situation. Good luck.

I completely emphasize. At least you’re on the other side of this and seem to have come out at least lucid if not whole. :wink: Good on ya for managing your daughter and preventing that from becoming a real shit show.

My divorce was interrupted by covid. We couldn’t extend the process any longer, and I too had a daughter (now son but that’s another story) that was estranged and on the verge of all consuming and unreconcilable hatred for the mother unit. The two have at least reached détente, which I count as a win. I can’t go thru life with the knowledge of having thrown gasoline on a mother-child battle, so did what I could to smolder the flames.

It is time for me to restart the D process now that we’re all duly vaccinated, and there is an end to covid on the horizon.

But, I digress. All the best as you move forward.

I’m hoping you meant smother the flames.

D’oh. Correct, smother

Wow. Just Wow.
@JohnT, I hope for peace for you and your family.
Yes. You will always be family.

What does this even mean?

With how much personally identifying information you’ve posted here over time, including linking to your personal photo pages with your real name, etc, I can’t help but wonder how your ex and your daughter feel about your publicly posting their private information and names. Surely you got their permission?