First, let me explain-I am an unabashed dog lover. I have kept dogs throughout my childhood and adult life, and I am always amazed by the intensity of the human-dog relationship. I don’t think there is any other animal that responds to humans like dogs. Having said this, I realize that humans are capable of anthropomorphizing their favorite pets, and that dogs have quite different priorities from humans. I really can’t accept that my dog believes me to be a pack leader-although he makes all the submissive actions. Also, I am sure that he experiences love-though of a somewhat different form than we humans do.
The things that really amaze me are the empathy that dogs exhibit-they seem to “want” to cheer you up when you are down. Is this proof of intelligence? I don’t know-but my dog is great company, and seems to want to be with me-he even likes to go into the shower with me.
So-please let me know what you think about the man-dog relationship-is it really a friendship, or are we just misinterpreting the instincts of an animal?
I don’t know if you have heard but there was a theory that came out at one point which suggested dogs were just pretending to like us to get free food. I find that theory rather silly though myself, and it certainly paints dogs in a greedy picture. These are probably the same folks that tell us that there is no such thing as an altruistic act (the logical fallicies of that statement are for another thread though)
ARe dogs intelligent: You betcha. But not as intelligent as their forbears the wolves. Still, I think some comparative sciencists have suggested dogs would have IQs somewhere in the low “dull normal” range of human IQ…talking about 70 here. This would mean dogs are more intelligent than the average Down’s Syndrome human…and (not in any way trying to put down MR by the way, just stating a comparative point) if you watch dogs vs MR folk try to solve a problem, you will see why researchers say this. Obviously it is difficult to make these kind of comparative statements and satisfy everyone…after all just how DO you measure dog IQ? But you see the point. Also, mixbreeds tend to be more intelligent than pedigrees due to inbreeding in pedigrees.
About the liking you/dominance issue…probably both are true. The gestures you are probably talking about include the face licking, posture, etc. Wolves of course are known for their dominance heirarchy. But the neat thing about wolves is, even though they have dominance heirarchies, they still like each other very much. I remember seeing a documentary on a wolf pack raised in captivity and the least dominant wolf (a female) was about the most well liked by the other wolves. When she died (of natural causes) the other wolves moped around for months. So your dog probably does think of you as dominant (thought this is not always the case…dogs might think THEY are dominant too if you let them) but probably adores you all the same. Humans have dominance heirarchies as well…usually structured around a dominant female (mom) but we still like our masters too don’t we? 
Dog empathy is an amazing thing. Some dogs almost seem to have ESP regarding their master or mistress’s feelings and moods.
I once heard an interesting theory about dogs that always want to cheer us up when we’re down and won’t leave our sides when we’re ill. If you can accept the fact that your dog sees you as the pack leader, and that domestic dogs don’t really mature and essentially live their lives as puppies, you understand that you are the center of your dog’s universe. Therefore if something seems to be amiss with you they have good reason to be alarmed. If you fall ill, their well-being is threatened. So the dog is not thinking “My best friend is sad/not feeling well. Poor guy - I really love him. I need to comfort him and cheer him up.” He is thinking “My protector and provider appears weak. Damn - this could be a major bummer. I’d better monitor the situation.”
I think this theory has some merit. I choose to believe that my dogs love me. I’m good to them - they have a good life. However, who hasn’t seen a dog abashedly sucking up to an obviously mean (or even abusive) owner? This dog is acting out of fear and dependence. I get the idea that there is a fine line between fear/respect and love/respect with our canine friends.
I don’t buy the theory that they are just sucking up to us for food. The pack instinct is too strong. Dogs are highly social animals.
-sulla
Sulla: One point to question (otherwise I agreed with your post). About the dogs sucking up to abusive owners out of fear/dependence not love…have you ever loved or been in love with someone who treated you poorly (either physically or emotionally)? I don’t think the concepts are mutually exclusive.
I read an article on this within the past year (I think it was in Discover, but a quick search of their website didn’t turn it up).
The article asserted a combination of the two theories put forward - the dog’s main concern is getting food, but they have evolved the means of getting this by expressing love/empathy.
As for their intelligence, dogs are very intelligent - at being dogs. Can that intelligence be translated into human terms? Hard to say.
V.
I thought this website had some interesting things to say on the subject (it’s an excerpt from a book).
avolongod:
I concede your point. You’re right - obviously love and fear are not mutually exclusive.
For some reason your post reminded me of the beginning of Gorky’s Mother, where the dog would howl on the grave of his newly-deceased abusive master every day.
Anthropomorphizing and ‘loving’ us so they can get food seems like so much bunk to me. While I have cats now I spent the better part of my life around dogs (if my apartment allowed dogs I’d have a dog now).
Certainly we may apply certain human attributes to our furry friends but those of you who have shared their life with a dog have to know certain feelings are present (in the dog). I’ve seen my dogs happy, loving, playful, pissed off, curious, afraid and sad. Maybe how a dog experiences these emotions is somehow different from us but I bet they equate well. I do not think I am applying labels where none are merited.
As for the food thing I don’t see it. My wife’s parent’s dog (my dog-in-law?) eats like a cat. Fill the bowl in the morning and it nibbles here and there all day long. There’s usually some food left in the bowl when you go to fill it the next morning. This dog has almost no notion of hunger and a lifetime of a 100% reliable food supply. No need for her to ‘play’ loving dog to ensure its food supply yet a more loving, give-me-attention monger you could hardly find.
As a bit of an aside has anyone puzzled over how dogs are treated in different cultures? Westerners seem to be the only ones big on dogs as pets. Eastern cultures eat dogs and in Africa dogs are a working animal but not part of the family. If you walked into a tribal village and started playing with the dog they’d think you’re cracked. To them it’d be akin to someone walking through a farmer’s field in the US and stop to romp around with the cows for awhile.
What I odn’t understand is how those cultures could have dogs around but never see their merits as a pet/companion? Maybe it’s the ugly American in me but I still find it baffling.
quote:
Ever try to play with a cow? They don't generally seem interested.
How DO you do that quote thing anyhoo?Most people figure that when a dog licks their face, it’s a ‘kiss.’ But it isn’t.
In the wild, hungry pups lick their parents’ muzzle to signal that they are hungry. The parent then regurgitates meat for the pups, so that they can feed.
If you really want respond to your dog in a loving and natural way, you should vomit on him when he licks your face.
I think dogs are, by nature, pack animals. In other words, they are sociable animals. A dog’s human family becomes its pack. As pack animals, dogs will help the other members, look for support, and clue-in on any cues to help out.
On the other hand, cats are more independent in the wild, but still show some social aspects. This is obvious in any housecat.
My wife and I are a foster home for Brittany and Springer Spaniel Rescue. I get to see quite a few dogs. MY own dog starts acting wierd when we get more than two rescue dogs at a time. Now is it jealousy, annoyance, fear that the all the food will get taken? I don’t know, but the more I have dogs around, the more they strike me as similar to a 3 year old human.
They have distinct personalities, they show different emotional states, they get upset when they are abandoned.
I like to think that my dog has a strong bond with me. Though both my wife and I feed her, she perks up visibly when I pay attention to her.
Sure, I could be deluding myself, but I say if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.
The question of sucking up for food is moot. It’s like asking if your wife married you for money.
I’m sure the man-dog relationship runs the gamut of most human/human relationships. I.e. Some dogs are selfish suck-ups, others are true friends.
I have always had dogs. To me they are partners, friends, and family. They ALWAYS keep their side of the bargain. Even when their human “masters” don’t.
Our Border Collie understands about 1000 + words of english, and can spell (he knows what “F-E-E-D the D-O-G” means.) He follows conversations, takes his assigned and self-designated tasks around the farm VERY seriously, has demonstrated the ability to plan and think proactively as well as solve problems. If he screws up and is scolded, he gets truly depressed. He gets angry if his expectations are not met by us as well.
In short, I’ve known many dogs who were much better “people” then quite a few people I have known.
MAybe the question should be turned around: are we humans deluding ourselves in thinking that our emotions are not just basic primal impulses on the same level as those off a dog?
I’ll second that! In fact I find it to be the case more often than not. Dogs don’t have a disingenuous bone in their bodies.
Avalongod
The quote thing goes like this. Ignore the periods (.)…if I don’t use them the board will make the quote thing ‘happen’ instead of showing what I’m writing.
[.quote.] Blah Blah Blah [./.quote.]
So…
I’m sure you are right. Our emotions are no ‘higher’ (or more evolved) than those of most animals. The difference is how we act on them. If you equate a dog to a three year old human you see where the difference comes in. Three-year-olds have all the basic emotions adults do but react to them in a much more straightforward manner than an adult. If they’re happy, sad, angry or whatever they pretty much wear their emotions on their sleeve and let you know. An adult might be ‘angry’ but will hide it since showing that anger (to your boss for instance) might just get you in more trouble.
Because we can hide and/or have a greater range of reactions to our emotions I suppose that deludes us into believing our emotions are more highly evolved. In fact it is our intellect that’s more evolved allowing us to take a greater range of responses to our emotions.
I think dogs have some sort of empathy toward their owners. I let my dog get away with too many things that annoy the hell out of visitors (jumping on laps, constant licking, nipping at shirt sleeves)because they don’t usually annoy me. However, if I come home from work really annoyed, my dog doesn’t do any of those things to me. She comes up, sits at my feet and wags her tail. She also does that when I’m sick, so I think she can tell when its okay for her to act like a complete maniac, and when its not. That seems to be pretty astounding even for most people. Anbd I don’t think she behaves hoping for food, because she has a constant supply of biscuits.
She’s also smart enough to tell when another dog is going to attack her, because she’ll turn around and walk out of the room. That happens a lot when she’s around my dad’s dog, because Dad’s dog has attacked her a few times.
BTW I saw a web site once with a ‘doggy IQ test’. I can find it again if anyone is interested.