Its different than US style racism, you can see people of the same skin tone saying “goddamn Guyans(Guyanese)”. Not sure what you’d call that.
If you can’t document that you were born in a country then you still have stateless children. That happened to a friend born on the move in Malaysia from China. The first citizenship she was granted was in the US many years later.
I agree that it is a moral good to not create stateless children. I disagree that jus soli is the only or best way to do so. There are other moral implications, such as encouraging pregnant women to cross closed boarders in risky conditions in order to give their kids citizenship somewhere else. That seems to be a moral negative if jus soli supports that type of human trafficking.
I don’t object to jus soli, I just don’t see it as morally better than other systems. They all have similar issues.
They never had citizenship to begin with. Declaring that they don’t have it now is neither cruel nor criminal.
Whether they did something wrong or not, the fact remains that they are not, and never were, citizens of the Dominican Republic.
They are not entitled to be in the Dominican Republic. They are not stateless: they are citizens of Haiti.
BWAHAHAHAHA.
Yeah, good luck with that. Jus soli can also create stateless people. Heritage can be shown through DNA; where you were born is a matter of retaining documentation.
How many countries in the world accept your definition?
This I’m not sure of. I’ve seen numerous stories stating flat out that many people have lost their citizenship after the law re-defined citizenship. Honestly, I don’t know enough about the situation to make a judgement as to whether the articles are correct or not,
Do any of these stories identify, specifically, how this supposedly happened?
My wife is Dominican, and was a lawyer when she lived there. She has followed the case carefully. No one lost citizenship. Some people who made fraudulent claims in order to secure citizenship papers have now lost their claim, but since their citizenship was based on the truth of their application, and their application was false, they never had it.
The United States does this as well: if you lie in order to qualify for naturalization, and the lie is discovered, you risk losing your citizenship.
Christ, real citizenship law fills libraries and cannot be summed up in a sentence. But fine, all of them, throughout modern history. Barring any attempts to (il)legally disenfranchise an ethnic minority (Jews in Nazi Europe, Rohingya in Burma, etc) a person born, raised, and living in the country fits all definitions of citizen, everywhere.
Of course there could be exceptions, but only in special cases (to be hammered out individually) as I partially listed above; retroactively adding legislation that strips citizenship for those who were born, raised, and living in country, is wrong.
What are your wife’s political loyalties? The real issue here is the quixotic racism of Dominican politicians, who are absolutely convinced that there is some crucial racial difference between them and the “black” Haitians. Of course, to an American, everyone involved couldn’t get a cab after sundown in Manhattan, but that’s racism for you; it’s not supposed to make sense. Just saying that “a Dominican” thinks the policies of the Dominican government are hunky-dory doesn’t reassure much.
Very few people can prove the citizenship of their ancestors going back decades in a third world country. Record-keeping and respect for the rule of law in a place like that are … spotty at best. This is basically a pre-1964 Southern literacy test scenario – they’re setting a standard that’s impossible to meet, then only applying it to the disfavored population, because the real goal is to keep stirring the racial pot for demagogic ends.
“Everywhere” in ius soli countries perhaps, but those things alone won’t do you much good in a ius sanguinis system.
Re those “36 large passenger buses” to “be made available for continued use”: what happens, I wonder, if Haiti won’t let them through the border?
That’s not true. If you’re born in Italy to Australian parents, are raised in Italy, and are living there… You’re not an Italian citizen.
So “all of them,” is not true.
Is it?
I don’t think he has any clue what this means, kellner.
I made a factual claim about whether people lost citizenship. I have no idea what things being “hunky dory” might mean to you.
My wife’ political loyalties have nothing to do with the truth of the factual claim.
It’s not at all difficult to meet.
What aspects, specifically, do you claim are impossible?
You need to stop digging.
Are American conservatives flocking to defend this because they want to establish a precedent for ending Fourteenth Amendment-based citizenship in the U.S.?
No. It’s probably because they are still beating their wives.
This is absolutely wrong. From the Wikipedia article on jus soli (the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship):
The article also includes a nice world map indicating the countries where jus soli applies.
[Then, in 2013, the country’s Constitutional Court ruled that no longer would people born in the Dominican Republic automatically be considered citizens. The rule, the court decided, would retroactively apply to anyone born after 1929.
The change overwhelmingly affects Haitians and people of Haitian descent. And its impact reaches back generations.
In reality, Theano said, “cleaning” the Dominican registration rolls to root out fraud and non-citizens entails identifying Haitian-sounding names, then forcing Dominicans of Haitian descent to prove that they are citizens.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/06/16/the-bloody-origins-of-the-dominican-republics-ethnic-cleansing-of-haitians/)
Asking people to prove the citizenship of their relatives in 1929, when the rule requiring such proof was created in 2013 and no one had any reason to keep documents for the prior 84 years, is the impossible standard. Even in the U.S., there are plenty of people who would find it difficult or impossible to find their great-great-grandparents’ birth certificates from a hundred years ago. In a third world country rife with corruption, coups, and natural disasters destroying records? Good luck.
The Dominicans with Spanish names don’t have these papers either. The law effectively makes everyone stateless, but will only be enforced against those in the disfavored racial group.
I am slightly suspicious of why this has become such a cause celebre among left-wing circles – there are plenty of similar atrocities across the world right now – but it’s no real mystery why right-wingers who seek to end birthright citizenship for Mexican immigrants’ children are seeking to minimize what’s happening here.
Is that a retroactive law? And does Italy provide other means of automatically giving citizenship to those who were born/raised in the country?
[QUOTE=wikipedia]
Acquisition of citizenship:
[INDENT]Italian citizenship can be automatically acquired:
[INDENT]Through special application:
For individuals who were born in Italy to foreign parents but who have resided in Italy continuously from birth to adulthood.[/INDENT][/INDENT]
[/QUOTE]