Negligence would have been not telling START and his brother about the dangerdoor. It’s a safe assumption that they didn’t come in this door either. (The assumption is based on the homeowners not removing the unsafe staircase while **START ** and co. were there).
How do you define safe? Do all the knives have to be covered with padding? All of the toilets safely locked? All of electrical outlets filled with protective caps and the appliances unplugged to avoid tripping? The rugs securely nailed down? The stairs plastered over to make just a ramp? All of the doors fastened and sealed shut in case the neighbor’s rabid dog makes a visit and upon opening the door attacks you?
Really. The world is an unsafe place. You can get injured anywhere if you’re not careful. But placing the blame on someone else when you injure yourself is asinine. No, there isn’t usually an inherent risk in opening most doors out of a house. If the brother wasn’t warned, I’d be on his side. However, if you’ve been warned that there is a risk in opening a door whether it’s a 10’ fall, a rabid dog, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, it’s really YOUR responsibility to accept that risk as your own.
[QUOTE=stpauler]
Negligence would have been not telling START and his brother about the dangerdoor. It’s a safe assumption that they didn’t come in this door either. (The assumption is based on the homeowners not removing the unsafe staircase while **START ** and co. were there).
How do you define safe? Do all the knives have to be covered with padding? All of the toilets safely locked? All of electrical outlets filled with protective caps and the appliances unplugged to avoid tripping? The rugs securely nailed down? The stairs plastered over to make just a ramp? All of the doors fastened and sealed shut in case the neighbor’s rabid dog makes a visit and upon opening the door attacks you?QUOTE]
Slippery slope, dude. There’s a looooooooong slide between what you’re describing and having an unlocked front door leading to a ten-foot drop. Try to develop some perspective.
Look, both families probably aren’t loaded, I just hope they figure out a way to get bro taken care of medically that hurts each of them as little as possible. If they can get insurers to foot the bill – standard health or home insurers, doesn’t matter – all to the good.
And the neighbor should have boarded up the door pronto. When one of the steps on my front porch broke, I roped off the porch and then fixed it pronto. Just common sense. Not locking up a door that leads to a ten foot drop is dog-stupid.
Try to develop some reading skills. It was a side door. And slippery slope is an invalid retort. I mean, gay marriage? — next thing you know, people will be marrying their dogs.
Looks to me like his reading comprehension was just fine. There is, indeed, a huge difference between an electrical outlet and a door to nowhere. One does not expect a reasonable guest to injure himself with reasonable use of an outlet. And it has been pointed out to you at least twice that sometimes side doors are main doors. Reading skills, indeed.
I’ve read this six times now and still can’t make heads or tails of it.
On the outside, the door is 10 feet above ground, with no stairs? And that’s due to a slope? On the inside, is there also a 10 foot drop? Or is there a floor at door level? What does “it was on the same side inside that it was on outside” mean? And when you say “Long story short, there was a reason it was there”, can you possibly lengthen the story a tad, perhaps continuing with the phrase “and that reason is…”?
All those things you mention are generally safe to have around a house, and people won’t wind up dead or injured if they happen to use them. A door to nowhere is a hazard, period. Find any building code anywhere that would allow such a door, building codes allow unsecured toilets, rugs and outlets.
Life isn’t 100% safe, but that’s no excuse to allow hazardous conditions to exist, especially when the remedy is cheap and simple.
Okay, say you’re facing the house. The door in question is on the right side (south), toward the back (east). Since the house is basically a rectangle, we knew that when we walked in, that door would be toward the back on our right. Sure enough, it was.
The reason the door is there is that the house is a completely renovated and restored farm house, originally built in 1910. It was moved back on the property (1.5 acres) about 50 feet or so. An addition was made to the left side (north) for a great room, back door, and deck. The house was placed such that very little grading was required for a basement and rear garage, which were also added. So, the effect is that the driveway goes downhill on the right side, and you pull into the garage behind the house. That side door used to be the back door, but at that time, the house was forward of the slope, and the door was only a couple of feet off the ground and had two steps. As part of the renovation, their plan was to build a deck outside that door to come around the house and join the other deck. That’s what we’ll finish when we take over later this month.
Sure, it’s a slippery slope. That was my point. Cheesesteak was saying not to invite people over to an “unsafe house”. His point is nebulous and I was calling him out on it. The one obvious unsafe aspect of the house that had the propensity of being overlooked by a normal person was brought to the attention of the visitors.
There’s a lot of information that’s missing from START’s OP that needs to be addressed to fully flesh out responsibility.
[ol]
[li]Which way did the door open[/li][li]How old is the brother[/li][li]How were they warned?[/li][li]Was one of the homeowners present?[/li][li]When were the stairs taken down?[/li][li]Has the brother been here before?[/li][/ol]
I’m sure there are more that I’m not thinking of right now as well…
Here’s a quick anecdote about a similar situation.
A restaurant’s men’s bathroom toilet seat breaks off partially from the toilet and is brought to the attention of the manager. The restaurant has two toilets in the men’s room so they put an “OUT OF ORDER” notice on the door for the night and plan on getting it fixed the next day. A patron goes to the bathroom and opens the door of the out of order stall and begins to use the toilet with no problem. However, when he reaches over to grab toilet paper on his left with his right hand, the toilet seat moves, the patron gets frightened and sits immediately back down. The toilet seat crushes his testicle between the seat and the toilet because of the weight of the patron. Ouch. The patron sues the restaurant for $10K plus medical expenses because the restaurant didn’t warn him of the damages that were possible from using the facilities there. The patron lost the suit because the warning was sufficient enough to stop anyone from using what would normally be deemed a safe environment.
The same is comparable to this situation. The door itself didn’t have a warning but the guest was warned of the problems of what would normally be a safe situation. As such, in my opinion and I’ve seen a lot of claims of this sort, the responsibility is on the visitor to act judiciously when danger has been brought to their attention.
Thanks for the clarification, Lib. I was picturing some sort of bizarre ghost house, with revolving fireplaces leading to secret torture chambers, peepholes in the eyes of portraits, and a sick, knife-wielding clown living under the stairs.
So the south wall used to be a basement? Is it a cinder block wall?
so me and my brother were hanging out at my mom's friends house with her husband while my mom went out for the evening. the lady totally told us both not to go in the door, but my brother forgot and the sick, knife-wielding clown stabbed him!!! :( :( :( the lady said she'd pay some of his medical bills--she's already bought him a pack of ostomy bags--and she kept saying that her husband kept almost walking into the clowns torture chamber. Umm, hello!!! If you have a sick, knife-wielding clown you should LOCK THE DOOR! My poor bro!
~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~~
I don’t agree, if the bathroom was undergoing renovations and had the entire floor removed, THEN it would be comparable, and I doubt the jury would have considered a simple sign enough warning.
It comes down to the potential for injury. A broken toilet seat is rarely going to cause serious injury as it did in this case. An uncontrolled 10’ fall will almost definitely cause serious injury, and could easily cause catastrophic injury.
BTW, I’d also like answers to your questions, if START comes back with more info.
Well, the south wall at that spot was the utility room off the kitchen that led outside. A quick left turn, three steps forward, and you were in the back yard. What they did basically was build a foundation and basement in place at the grade, and then moved the house on top of it.
True, that a fall from 10’ has the propensity for more injury than a rogue toilet seat. That was just the first claim that came to mind when I was thinking of ridiculous tortious claims. The comparability lies in the fact that these two things, a doorway and a toilet seat, are presumably innocuous places. The fact that warnings were given to say that these places are not what they seem should mitigate the culpability of the home/restaurant owners (as was the case for the restaurant.) That’s not to say that either are completely infallible, sure they both should have locked the doors, and/or put up pylons, and/or sticky yellow tape, and/or put a board across the door and such. But as for the case of the home, that would be unsightly. The verbal warning by the homeowners was believed to be enough. The restaurant believed that a sign saying out of order was enough as well. Were either of these parties negligent? No, not in my opinion. They understood a possible danger and warned against it.
Sorry about your bro’s accident and I’m glad he only suffered a broken ankle. You may not like what I have to say but I think the “friend” should pay for the medical bills due to the fall but nothing more. Litigation has gotten out of hand in this country. Waaaaaaaaay out of hand.
