No, the Morrowind cities were not small. They were much, much larger in terms of actual usful space than Oblivion cities. More building, more locations, more stuff inside and out. In Oblivion, they couldn’t manage to squeeze the city environments into active memory on consoles, except by separating them from the rest of the world. But you’ll find fewer people, fewer things, and less to do.
Yeah… the cantons, for example, were massive in Morrowind. Even the central city in Oblivion, by comparison, was pretty small.
Oblivion had an absolute horror of the 3rd dimention, too. I can udnerstand itellectually why they don’t want people flying or using huge jump boosts or climbing things. It’s just that their reasons are incredibly stupid.
It’s a damn magical universe. When something can’t defend itself from flying enemies or ranged attacks, it’s pretty much worthless. I wouldn’t put half-trained guards in uniform without handing them a loaded crossbow and maybe a couple of handy scrolls. And you’d expect the local armory to stock everything from ballista bolts to micro-nuke spells just in case. Moreover, getting on top of things (literally) was fun. There was stuff hidden all over Morrowind, and I for one think Bethsoft missed a huge opportunity by not making a “steal and flee across the thieves’ highway” gameplay element or scenario.
They do look more like they did in Morrowind, their pudgy potato-faced appearance in Oblivion was a bit of an aberration. Besides which, their homeland has been wiped out by a moon impact, the eruption of Red Mountain and Argonian invasion, the survivors exhiled to Solsheim from Bloodmoon, so it makes sense they look a bit more rugged.
Might explain why Argonians look a lot more badass now too.
Did you actually play Morrowind? I’m guessing not, 'cause then you’d remember how the NPC’s basically had nothing to say to you, and the stuff was just a copy of the last thing you saw placed over here instead of over there. There may have been more NPC’s, however, Oblivion has a greater ratio of them that give you quests IMO. I don’t ever remember walking into a town and having a crazed Bosmer run up and start blabbering about how you and he need to talk…but you can’t talk now, not safe…‘meet me behind the chapel, at midnight’. It’s stuff like that that picks you up out of your seat and puts you in the game.
Everybody likes to talk about how bad the movement in Oblivion is, how you can’t levitate, so on and so forth. How ungrateful…blasphemous, all of you! Levitation was removed for a reason, a very good reason, I for one am glad it’s gone, that was one of the things that cheapened Morrowind to me. If I didn’t want to fight a particular enemy on the ground, all I had to do was elivate myself out of reach, what a pathetic way to get out of fighting, at least in Oblivion I have to get creative to get away.
One more thing…try putting in Morrowind for a few moments get a decent start with a new character, then play Oblivion for an equal length of time. After that, put ES-3 back in and try playing it some more without quickly wanting to go back to IV…just try it, I’d honestly like to know your thoughts then. 
And it was a good idea. But it’s also very limited. Oblivion had a few ways of grabbing you, and they were good ideas. They also didn’t compare to the coolness in Morrowind, where you could often find quests, or even useful treasure, or little secrets by poking around and talking to people - which almost never happened in Oblivion. Moreover, if you think the dialogue was cut-n’-paste, you didn’t pay much attention. NPC’s often had something interesting to say if you checked, simply because of the combinations of race/class/faction and so forth.
Morrowind is the studious older brother who doesn’t say much, but works hard and quietly. Oblivion is the spastic little sister who rushes ahead hyperactive and makes a mess.
So don’t. Or better yet, the developers should consider that in designing encounters. But the argument that we should get rid of levitation or flight or other 3d movement options because my God!, people might use them doesn’t hold much weight with me.
Sorry, you lost that challenge before you made it, because I have. If I wanted to play an Elder Scrolls game, I’d immediately hit Morrorwind. Far more to do, more to see, and more fun. The world responds far more, and far more significantly, than Oblivion. Oh, it’s true that Oblivion had better set-pieces; they never tried anything as “big” as the siege of Kvatch. But one key aspect of Morrowind was that the developers followed-through everything much better. They never did anything half-assed, unlike, well, everything in Oblivion.
To each his own, smiling bandit, I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy Morrowind, it’s a wonderful game, I played it for over a year and nothing else. I discovered ES (Morrowind, I haven’t played Daggerfall or Arena) not long before the Bloodmoon/Tribunal pack was released, I was already a hardcore fan by then, but Bloodmoon I thought was freaking awesome. Yes, I’ve actually swam the distance between Solstheim and Vvardenfell, fleeing a horde of nasty critters I stirred up, and I didn’t have anything to pay for the trip back, I went too early with not enough money 
(just wanted to see the place really). I didn’t care much for Mournhold, but did pretty much everything you could do there anyway, I didn’t like the fact that the whole place was enclosed, and having one giant sewer instead of lots of little caves was not as appealing (I like the airy atmosphere and such, Mournhold was too stuffy IMO).
So after playing Morrowind for quite a long time, I eventually did everything there was to do, period, and I mean everything, several times over in some cases. I got so incredibly bored of it I even tried the PC version, but still wasn’t enough to re-spark my interest, even with the additional content. Then Bethesda announced Oblivion, and I pre-ordered myself a copy, but didn’t have a 360 (Oblivion’s the main reason I even got one), so there I am, watching the DVD they included about the making of, the actual game in hand, and can’t play it :(. Of course, once I was able too, the first thing I did was steal a horse (just to ride one), the town guard chasing me of course. Imagine my suprise when I turned to face them, and tried drawing my sword…HA, was I in for a shock. They should have left horses out of the game if they weren’t at least going to let you use spells or bows while riding, but those Imperials do look cool when strolling past you on the highway, they just look kinda’ stupid though when they dismount to fight enemies, a soldier on horseback, historically, is worth 20 or more on foot, as long as they aren’t dismounted by spears or pikes.
So that’s my take, I guess I’m through with ES-III, almost equally through with ES-IV, now I’m about ready for V, just in time, I knew Bethesda wasn’t going to let me down! GO SKYRIM, GO SKYRIM, GO SKYRIM…(chants off into distance with large crowd of ES fans) 
Levitation was only a problem in Morrowind because 1) the cost to increase the duration of a levitation spell was linear and 2) the available magic to cast the spell increased geometrically, especially when using the highly exploitable alchemy system. So you could make levitation potions and spells with insane durations that allowed you to permanently escape the bonds of gravity. The solution to this problem is soooooo bloody obvious it’s beyond ridiculous that they removed the magical effect as a way of solving it.
Of course, they were simultaneously solving the “problem” of people entering cities by flying over walls instead of clicking on the gate to load the area. They took the easy way out and deserve all the criticism they get for it.
Ummmm…Gorsnak, you do uderstand that there is a limit, right? Let me put it this way, they traded the levitation for better quality surroundings. By limiting 3D movement, the cellspace has also been kept down. There’s a very good reason why you can’t swim out into the ocean into infinity, not even in Morrowind. The reason why you go for miles without seeing so much as a shrub in ES-III is because it takes that much more processing power to have it. Even in the swampy area, all the trees are virtually dead, they have no leaves, why, because they couldn’t put enough on to make it look like a tree, so they didn’t try. What is the fascination with levitation!? Is it some super geek thing I don’t understand? I never even used the damn spell, plus it never protected you from the Cliff Racers, which is the most prominant creature you run into. Hated those things, always sneaking up behind me when all I’m trying to do is get to that freaking Ashlander camp way out in the middle of nowhere, you know the one, way up to the north, and you can’t cut accross the mountains 'cause they’re too steep (and here’s where you tell me all I needed was a levitation spell…cheap, just plain cheap, all of you, I actually made the journey, many times FYI).
He’s saying (I think) it’s an unnecesary compromise dictated by the use of an even-then archaic 512mb combined system/video memory in consoles. Oblivion could’ve had wide open worlds with no load screens and infinite view distances if not for those limitations. And those limitations will still be there for Skyrim - it seems so absurd, with 8gb of fast modern ddr3 ram costing about $50, that we’re still basing our gaming limitations on what’s effectively somewhere around 300MB of (very slow) system memory.
Oh yes, I just quoted myself 
! Now try telling me what computers can do! Do you know what GTX means? I’ve got so much CUDA power it’ll make your eyeballs swim (CUDA is mainly used for gaming, but pimps can use it for work related stuff too). I think I’ve clarified my stand…nuff said.
On the Skyrim note, I’m extremely pleased at a lot of the shots I’ve seen so far, especially the new ones that Mr. Kobayashi graciously posted. It’s starting to look like Morrowind and Oblivion squished together with a mega side of awesome kick-ass!!!
Bosstrain… I think you’re whom they had in mind when they dumbed it down for consoles.
You just won’t give in will you, bandit. Okay, Todd Howard will just have to release the console zombies on you then, in his interviews the man starts giving his opinions about games and media in general. I’ve never heard someone talk that had so much in common with myself, he basically said everything I have said about the same things, exactly, with the same conviction. Also, letting you in on a trade secret, we, in the media business, be it movies, music, games, etc. actually hold things back…on purpose, deliberately. The reason being is so that next time it’s not quite so difficult to get something new that no one’s ever seen before, because we haven’t done it yet, we are your gods (so to speak). So why do you insist on defying us? We know what’s good for you (and us). The one’s that do everything to the limit are also the ones that fizzle out right away most of the time, because they have nothing to come back with, ever, or at least not until they can come back. Bethesda is pushing the limit, graphics wise at least, and they’re not about to sacrifice the console gamers just to make you computer guys happy, there aren’t enough of you to make up the difference, you’re alone, solitary, isolated, going no where fast (do I need more synonyms?).
It’s a spell traditionally available in TES games, is a nice tactical option for magic users besides running backwards whilst lobbing fireballs, and provides a nice bit of utility in a game where your character with 92 strength and 70 athletics skill can’t scale a 5’ wall.
Oh, and it lets you shortcut across steep mountains.
I think that removing the ability rather than figuring out a way to make it work within the various constraints was just lazy. Maybe if they’d implement a climbing mechanic it wouldn’t peeve me as much.
I can take you on too, Gorsnak. I am getting outnumbered though, anyone gonna’ back me up here? (casts conjuration spell: Summon Console Gamers)
I know what levitation is, I’m asking why everyone’s so damn into it. Sure, there were three TES games that had it, but now the devs are saying no, they don’t want to have to account for all those possibilities (I’m sticking up for you Todd, you could jump on and explain to these people though…just sayin’). So, you’re excited about 11-11-11 huh, well, are you? Try 11-11-13 if you want levitation too. You have no idea what it even takes to make a game, let alone an ES game, it’s not easy, trust me. Oh yeah, BTW, if you’re playing as a magic character, especially once your level’s high enough, you can get an invisibility spell, you do know that, right? Works just as well, in fact, it’s better, the enemy can’t even see you now, and it leaves you plenty of time to even let your gauge build so you can wipe the smerk off that smug Deadroth permanently. Plus, why do you need to scale walls and mountains? what about the old saying ‘it’s not about getting there, it’s about the journey along the way’.
WTF? What’s up with the hostility?
Look, I’m not all hung up on levitation. I made one comment on what made it broken in Morrowind, and implied a simple solution to fixing that - altering the cost structure.
Then you asked me why I even cared about levitation, and I told you.
And now you’re on some rant about how I don’t know what it takes to make a game? Seriously? Were you the Bethesda developer responsible for the levitation decision or something? Just relax a little already. Sheesh.
And the whole wall thing is one of the most suspension of disbelief-breaking feature of a great number of 3d games, certainly not limited to the TES series. All manner of damn near superhuman game characters can’t get themselves over a short fence, even when their goal is clearly visible on the other side. It’s jarring, and detracts from the game’s experience. A game mechanic that circumvents this is a good thing. This is hardly a controversial position to take.
Whoa, bro…easy old chap. Re-read my post with a 20th the amount of hostility you previously read into it.
Sure, I’m a bit upset that people stroll around and talk about stuff they don’t know anything about, and maybe I did come across a little harsh there, but all I’m trying to do really is have some mild banter back and forth about pros and cons of TES-III and IV, and defend Bethesda for not putting it in V.
Sure, I don’t like the comment about Bethsoft being lazy, rubs my fur the wrong way a little, I feel what they’re trying to do and firmly stand behind it, but I’m not trying to reach through this computer screen and rip you head off over it, I apologize if it came across that way though.
The thing for me is I actually enjoy taking the longer route to get somewhere in, especially in Oblivion, the scenery is gorgeous, even better when you do make it high up on a mountain and look down at Cyrodiil sprawling before you. All I’m really driving at is that it makes it harder for the devs to keep those incredible views when the player can fly around like super man all the time. Plus I always thought it looked funny the way the character just steps up on thin air, and the first time I tried it, not even realizing what levitation did exactly, I thought something had gone terribly wrong with the game, hahaha :). (maybe I should use more smilies when posting comments like that)
You’re still saying that I don’t know what I’m talking about. You’re coming across as extremely patronizing. Just because someone isn’t a writer doesn’t mean they can’t have educated and valid opinions on whether Heinlein’s later works were better or worse than his early books.
If you want to now say that removing levitation was good because it improves the gameplay aesthetic, well, that’s not an obviously wrong position, but it’s not what you have been arguing up till now. Plus, of course, there are ways of leaving it in without allowing the player to “fly around like superman all the time.” Which, not incidentally, is pretty much exactly what I was suggesting - by increasing the cost of flying around all the time you can make it pretty much impossible to fly around all the time. Just like you might think that running around with a 100% chameleon spell on permanently is game-breaking, so that should be prohibitively expensive. Errr. Pretend I didn’t say that.
Fact is, it’s a big, open, complex game, and the sheer variety of things a player can do means that it’s likely that a few of them will lead to serious imbalance. When those things are identified, I think it diminishes the TES games to remove those features rather than balance them. Especially since gamers can mod out game-breaking imbalance, but cannot easily introduce entirely new magical effects. TES is supposed to be about doing whatever you want, not about running into invisible walls for no apparent reason.* Oh damn, there I go again. 
*Yes I know the invisible boundaries are there for a reason. But, my first run-in with them was that quest way down south where you’re asked to clear some bandits out of a house. They were a little to strong for me, so I ducked in and out of the front door trying to fight them separately. I’m finally winning, and two decide to flee, heading south towards the coast. I give chase and am finally catching up when BAM! I run into the invisible wall, with my quarry on the other side.
Hahaha…hehehe, I had no idea the enemies could run past the boundary…hahahahaha. Now that certainly didn’t need to be happening at all, that’s hilarious, they had to have eventually been stopped, but damn, the barrier needs to be the same I’d think.
Yes, though I haven’t said it clearly enough (I am now), the main thing I’ve been arguing is the aesthetics. I’m a diehard Morrowind fan, but the dusty trails can get annoying after a while, and it seemed like half the time there was a freaking dust storm that limited view to just five feet or so (I can’t tell you how many times I got lost or circled around my destination without even seeing it)
The levitation spell could be dumbed down maybe, making the magic cost way to high to use for more than a few seconds or something, but there will still be the risk of taking the player out of the game, as Todd Howard was saying, the thing they’re trying to work on the most is the experience while playing it.
I’m not saying you don’t know what your talking about, I don’t know you, for all I know you could be on the Bethsoft team. However, I do know quite a lot, and random blatent statements without some reason or way to back them up, no prior experience, or at least without some hearsay doesn’t go without a little jab in my side. Again, I apologize for coming across so strong. (damn, there’s no way to put tone of voice on these freaking posts, no wonder everyone thinks I’m an arse)
I don’t know why anyone would go near this until the mod community has had a few months to turn it into a playable game.