[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
It’s a cultural issue. Colored socks just don’t value superiority like white socks do. It has nothing to do with their color, of course. You could bleach a colored sock white and it would still be inferior.
[/QUOTE]
And not only that! I have noticed that women’s socks in particular are flimsy and insufficient for the job of warming feet. They’re not nearly as warm, comfortable or protective as men’s socks. Call me a sexist if you will! It’s still true!
[QUOTE=Omegaman]
Well NDEs can’t be verified either. By thier very nature they are the same as religion. I take it you don’t feel that way.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, there are a sufficient number of people who have been resucitated after cardiac arrest who report similar experiences that we can state that NDEs do occur.
The trouble comes when we attempt to describe just what the NDE experience indicates regarding death. You may be correct that that point lacks any hope of resolution. On the other hand, the claims that reports of Out-of-Body Experiences indicate the recurrence of a particular type of event CAN be tested and I have posted the methodology on at least two occasions.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Politics too. Lets ban that.
[/QUOTE]
::: fervently :::
AMEN!
[QUOTE=Maureen]
And not only that! I have noticed that women’s socks in particular are flimsy and insufficient for the job of warming feet. They’re not nearly as warm, comfortable or protective as men’s socks. Call me a sexist if you will! It’s still true!
[/QUOTE]
Gracious ladies and gentlemen of the SDMB, I fear we’re losing sight of the greater issue. The deficiencies of various forms of socks are not inherent in their color or even, indeed, in their gender. Maureen, I can assure you that I show you, nay, I can make you a pair of colorful women’s socks which are just as warm as and stay up just as well as any plain, white men’s socks. Der Trihs, I can make you a pair of socks which, while they may be white as the driven snow contain textures and patterns which would put the most colorful pair of socks you’ve ever seen to shame! If a given pair of socks is deemed deficient or inferior in some way, or even if many pairs of socks are deemed deficient and share the same characteristic, it is not the fault of that sock or that characteristic. Instead, the fault lies in the way the sock was made. Rather than declare colored socks superior to white socks or men’s socks superior to women’s socks, I choose to believe that the differences between socks lies entirely in the way they were shaped by their creator.
What did you expect from a knitter?
< claps >
I know we said that The BBQ Pit was the proper place to discuss socks, but… :dubious:
Seems like one of the primary differences between say mswas’s posts and lekatt’s can sum up why the OP’s argument doesn’t match up.
mswas approaches the religion debate like we expect and can nominally respect. He doesn’t say that there’s scientific proof of God. He doesn’t claim that there have been studies proving such-and-such about his deity because – wisely both in reason and in theology – he doesn’t associate scientific proof with his belief. Now, granted, I haven’t read all of mswas’s posts, but I feel like he’s a much more honest theist than lekatt regardless of how much I agree with him.
lekatt, on the other hand, is making a claim of fact while asserting evidence. If he said that he believed in NDEs purely as a matter of belief/faith/etc. then I doubt we’d be having this conversation. lekatt’s arguments are NOT equivalent to stating a belief about God. lekatt’s arguments are clothed in the robes of science, so they have to be treated equivalently to other arguments based on scientific evidence. In other words, his arguments are less equivalent to a theist-argument and more similar to claiming that the world is gradually warming due to AGW.
One is quite obviously a scientific argument, and lekatt’s arguments fall into the latter.
If given a choice, I’d definitely want more posters like mswas and less like lekatt. And that’s me saying it - even if we are at each other’s throats lately, I know I could get into a CS discussion with 'was about Skinny Puppy lyrics or the influence of Mute records on Detroit Techno and none of that would carry over. I don’t know if that’s possible with lekatt, because I’ve never seen lekatt post on anything else but NDEs and “God is love”. I don’t doubt he must have, but I don’t recall seeing it.
Crikey, is it just me or is the current GD thread turning a bit predatory?
I mean, I understand the nature of people’s objections to his infuriating assert-then-evade debating methods, but… I dunno… it just seems a bit too serious and organised an effort to me.
Whoa, for once I agree with Der Trihs. Colored socks-especially warm, fuzzy, chenille socks, rule. Or rather, should I say, they “rock my socks off?”
(Ducks rotten tomatoes)
But look again at what mswas had to say:
He is describing a pattern of behavior by some atheists that is as predictable and destructive as lekatt’s behavior. I can see why the moderators would want to keep lekatt from continuing to interrupt with the same posts over and over and then refusing to engage in actual debate. But why are the mods not addressing the other side of the disruption? lekatt is not the only one who seems to be practically reading from a script.
Der Trihs, you repeat yourself as much as lekatt. Lekatt may not understand science, but I think he’s more likely to be right than you are. That’s not saying much. You are just a little broken record of hateful and meaningless accusations. I don’t see that much difference between the two of you except for points of view. You are not the only one but you do stand out.
mswas, that is the best post I’ve read by you. It is so tightly written that I had trouble using just an excerpt. You wrote what I have been feeling and could not put into words. Thank you.
I oppose the OP.
OTOH, I favor eliminating the entire GD forum. I fail to see any substantial difference between it an IMHO, except that the arguements in GD are more shrill. GD seems to have become the place for prople who don’t actually realize that their positions are OPINIONS, and nothing more.
Ah, well, no one will listen this time either…
lekatt does for mindless repetition what the grapist did for…
mindless repetition.
I know I am a simple background player in GD, there is just not enough N8 to devote to the research needed to rise above pedestrian (although I did finally make it through the Dawkins book and am expanding my C.S. Lewis) however I feel diversity, unrestrained diversity, is essential in a debate forum.
Yeah, I have been on the receiving end of Der Trihs’s venom, but have come out better for it. And I have read a good many of lekatt’s posts, as uniquely single minded as they are.
I have also enjoyed mswas’ posts and all the other charactors that usually gravitate to the religious threads in GD.
It is this diversity that keeps things fresh and interesting, even when discussing a 2000 year old arguement (ok, older than that, just the whole Christ issue is 2000 years old).
Science and Religion are like apples and oranges: one can use an apple to postulate that other fruit might exist but an apple cannot be used to prove the existance of an orange. Science cannot be used to prove the existance of anything spiritual, yet science itself can be spiritual. Science can be terrible and beautiful at the same time. When debating scientific theory, proofs and cites are appropriate but when debating spirituality no such proofs exist, and they don’t need to. Belief is personal, spirituality is anecdotal.
I would like to see religious debates turning more toward articles of faith and less toward “Does God Exist?”. In this light I find lekatt much more annoying and detrimental than Der Trihs.
Hell, I could see going out west and throwing a couple cold ones back with Der Trihs and getting along just fine, lekatt not so much.
Short answer, no, please do not regulate GD or their posters, stick them in a corner if needed but let us have at each other like the apes we truly are.
Oh yeah, white socks baby, really tall tubey white socks with elastic that leaves those special slightly itchy sock prints on the calves. Gotta be white socks.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
There are other message boards out there where religious/mystical beliefs are put forth without fear of challenge or question(mainly because people who try to do so are banned for “giving out negative vibrations” and their posts are removed from sight). You can usually recognize them by the pastel blue and/or pink background, rainbow and/or unicorn and/or angel pictures all around, and the pretty-pretty avatars.
This ain’t that kind of message board.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. Your vitriol towards religious/mystical beliefs is barely contained here. It’s one thing to pursue logical debate, it’s quite another to spew disgust.
[QUOTE=Brown Eyed Girl]
Wow. Your vitriol towards religious/mystical beliefs is barely contained here. It’s one thing to pursue logical debate, it’s quite another to spew disgust.
[/QUOTE]
Bullshit. What I have disdain for are people who want to put forth ideas and have all questions and dissent about said ideas stifled. Great Debates is where you should discuss religious beliefs, but nobody gets a free pass-you have the right to believe, but others have the right to question.
The shot opens with Hentor’s back to the camera. We see that he is surveying a landscape strewn with the hurt feelings of religious posters. Hentor turns, and the camera pulls in tight. He stares pointedly into the camera, one tear rolling down his left cheek.
And… scene!
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
The shot opens with Hentor’s back to the camera. We see that he is surveying a landscape strewn with the hurt feelings of religious posters. Hentor turns, and the camera pulls in tight. He stares pointedly into the camera, one tear rolling down his left cheek.
And… scene!
[/QUOTE]
[Soundtrack: Violin. A really tiny violin (rubs fingers) playing for all the religious posters]
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Bullshit. What I have disdain for are people who want to put forth ideas and have all questions and dissent about said ideas stifled. Great Debates is where you should discuss religious beliefs, but nobody gets a free pass-you have the right to believe, but others have the right to question.
[/QUOTE]
To be even more specific, I have utter disdain for “gurus” and “masters” who come forth to enlighten us with THE* TRUTH*. They have no interest in actually discussing ideas and accept no criticism. When they are questioned or critiqued, they spew out false pity, shallow “love”, and tell us that we are spiritual children that are just not enlightened enough to understand, but all would be just hunky dory if we just accepted their great wisdom at face value. If I’m in the market for a “teacher”, I’ll go hire my own, thankyouverymuch-if you post on this message board, be prepared for actual conversation. You main lose some points, you may make some points, but if you come out of it the same way you entered you’ve wasted our time and yours.
IMHO, of course.
[QUOTE=Brown Eyed Girl]
Wow. Your vitriol towards religious/mystical beliefs is barely contained here. It’s one thing to pursue logical debate, it’s quite another to spew disgust.
[/QUOTE]
This is the Pit. He, and I, can spew as much disgust as we want. And to be prefectly honest, his post didn’t have that much in it. With the exception of the slight exaggeration of the physical description of the websites, he was spot on. I’ve been to those forums, posted the rational arguments, and been kicked out for doing so. This place is a beacon of openmindedness compared to those sites, and I wouldn’t be here otherwise. He didn’t once call them brainwashed googly eyed cannibal zombies for jebus, and I for one applaud his restraint.
[QUOTE=Brown Eyed Girl]
Wow. Your vitriol towards religious/mystical beliefs is barely contained here. It’s one thing to pursue logical debate, it’s quite another to spew disgust.
[/QUOTE]
I think it’s pretty clear from his post that his disgust is limited to those who are obviously afraid to expose their beliefs to the light of examination, rather than the beliefs in general.
I don’t have anything against religion (although it isn’t for me), but I despise people who stick their fingers in their ears and go “la la la I can’t hear you!”