The end of religious discussion in GD

I was curious about this as well. It seems like every other thread in GD has a disparaging remark about DT, so I decided to check it out. No work on my desk right now :wink:

Given DT’s posting volume, I only managed to go back about 30 pages of search results before I got some new work. However, I didn’t notice DT advocating anything other than his ironclad (and, to me, mostly spot-on) beliefs in topic-appropriate threads. Frankly, I’m amazed that he still does it given how much crap he gets from other posters. In several of the threads I visited for this little project, he asks reasonable questions of other posters only to be told that he “isn’t worth the time” because of his “extremism.”

That aside, I can see how some theists would be upset at the difference in discourse here compared to other times/places they may have had these discussions. Sometimes, I feel like this may be the first time some theists have come up against equally ardent practitioners of something very different from what they believe without the pleasant filter of personal interaction.

I mean, I can relate. I used to be a theist. There were plenty of interesting conversations I had with other theists, but none that I can recall with an atheist. Those conversations were great, but, to be honest, they were all couched around believing in certain basic “mysterious” principles regardless of their religion. And, what’s more, those conversations were probably as civil as they were because we were friends. We felt comfortable enough with each other to talk about religion. In real life, I don’t think most people talk about religion to people that they think will even be remotely critical unless they know for a fact that the person is a good friend, which often removes the threat anyway.

Plus, when you’re interacting in person, it’s not as common to be as point-blank as in online posts. If people stated things like we do here, there’d be a lot more fistfights in the world.

People don’t usually like their beliefs to be challenged. They want their beliefs to be validated and supported by other people. When a theist initiates a conversation about a theological point (not having to do with belief/disbelief in God), they’re undoubtedly looking for discussion that assumes the belief as a basis for conversation. People entering the conversation and discussing the theology while using that basis are affirmation of the belief. When an atheist enters that sphere his/her questions seem to address the basis, and so it appears off-topic and destructive. When the theist seemingly equivocates, it appears dishonest and dismissive.

That being said, I don’t think theists have much ground to stand on in the more recent arguments in GD. Few (if any) of the debates going on have to do with theological arguments within a belief. I don’t see any debate threads titled “Should Paul Be As Influential As the Twelve?” for example, but I see some theist-started threads specifically challenging atheists. If you’re going to ask those kinds of questions, then of course your first principle ideas are going to be put into the grinder. You should have done so yourself before engaging in the argument.

If you plan on arguing about two completely different views, then you’re going to have to abandon first principles and come into the argument on the middle ground. That means no assumption of God and no assumption of no God. Then, use logic, reason, evidence, etc. to determine the worthiness of either side. If that seemingly handicaps religion, then, well, what does that say? Maybe it just says something about what kinds of arguments religion ought to keep itself to.

I don’t get into debates of faith on Christian Web Sites Bulletin Boards. Well, that’s not hard, since the only time I went to any was during the great religious board war and I found that there was not much in the way of debates there, anyway. I wasn’t trying to lead or convince anyone there, though, so perhaps that changed thing. By the way, they had red checked backgrounds, which I suppose might look pink. Didn’t see rainbows or unicorns, though.

Here, I generally speak up to defend Christ, not Christians. Not that He needs it, but I get a bit . . . emotional when someone who has no faith in Him tells me what He wants me to do. Come to think of it, I feel about the same when someone who says they have faith in Him tells me what He wants me to do. That’s about the time I step off the path, and contest with someone about their faith. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

However, I do not support the premise that theological argument is misplaced in Great Debates. And as long at it is not done as debate, the Pit is a good place to practice Christian living. That is a hard one, though.

However, Economists are one cult with which I will have no truck whatsoever.

Tris

There used to be far more theological discussion in GD, but most of the participants gave up when the threads were swamped with claims that all such discussions were silly.

Not all such outside claims were delivered rudely and many actually made points worthy of consideration, but the overall effect was to create a hostile environment so that only the dumbest “is too/is not” discussion is even attempted any more.

I don’t believe you need to listen to others at all. You and I both, know what He wants us to do. He wants us to do what is right.

Thank you.

He wants us to go to KFC and get him a bucket of extra crispy.

Grats on post 2,000 :wink:

I wonder, though, how much of this is history, and how much is convenient meme. It’s easy to complain about not being able to have a theological conversation because the big, bad atheists will overrun the thread now, because everyone else says that’s what used to happen all the time, “way back when”.

Your name is really Lucy and you have a football, right?

There are no socks that aren’t knitted, and Siege is their prophet! A fatwa on those that deny his are the perfect socks!

And, regarding the OP, I am fiercly opposed to limiting debate, especially about religion.
One of the boards that is our (the SD’s) ideological foe (the St*Frt site) bans discussion of religion. That in and of itself is enough reason to maintain the freedom to do so here.

This must be why I was never very good at crosswords. Should I know which site you’re referring to?

I’d guess that she’s referring to a notorious neonazi board; given that she asterisked it, I won’t say the name. Perhaps there’s a rule against it ?

Classic induction fallacy. Your tiny sampling missed quite much.

I’m a he. (wow, my first wrong gender!)

And yes, you are correct. The “Home of White Nationalism” on the Internet is the site I refer to. Most folks here that have been around a while try not to mention it by name, to avoid any potential board conflict, as has happened in the past.

(mods: note, it goes to a google search page, not the site itself)

:smack:

Got it. I expect the name was munged so as not to attract search engine hits.

Either that or stop at BarBQ Heaven for some Sweet 'n Hot rib tips, extra sauce extra bread, small cole slaw and some chips.

Hey, they don’t call it Heaven for nothing :wink:

“Unflavored for me!” — Maude Flanders

I’m just making the observation. I was rarely a participant in theological discussions, to begin with, but I have definitely observed the phenomenon that the number dropped off in direcrt response to the number of hijacks that occurred.

And I do not consider it a matter of “big, bad atheists” doing anything malevolent. It is simply the nature of the board, where everyone challenges everything, that limited discussions on certain topics will nearly always be hijacked when the number of interested participants on narrower topics are outnumbered by the number of posters who do not accept the premises of the discussion.

Well, then, can you provide some useful examples?

OK, I went looking this time… Difficult thing to search for, so I looked for threads containing the word ‘Trinity’ (assuming some of these would be entirely internal discussions of doctrine, theology and belief, not ‘Does God Exist?’ threads), and looking for posts by DT, I found that in this thread, he starts off on topic (albeit expressing a contrarian view), but by page 2, it’s pretty much an attack - here’s the post:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8771826&postcount=55

I’m sure other examples could be found. Searching sucks at the moment though.

Still, it isn’t happening in every single theology thread, or if it is, it isn’t DT every time.