I have a '98 4Runner with 182K on it. Let’s say I want to trade it in at a Toyota dealership. Let’s say I happen to know that it will need major repairs in the near future. (it didn’t pass a block test; there’s a tiny leak somewhere). I would never think of selling it to a private party, but I don’t feel the same guilt about using it as a trade-in.
What do I disclose to the salesman? Is all fair when the guy at the dealership is feeding me one line after another?* I know they won’t look close enough to find the problem. With that many miles, they’ll turn around sell it to a wholesaler anyway…it’ll end up in an auction someplace.
Anecdote: We traded in a 1990 Nissan Quest van after we were told it needed about $2,000 in repairs, already had 160,000 hard miles, and we didn’t plan on keeping it any longer than than another year anyway.
We went to the place, offered to trade it in and we were in the same boat. Eventually we decided to spill the beans and they were about as indifferent as humanly possible. The guy commented, “Oh we don’t care, we just sell it to the auction anyway.”
So maybe that might save you some guilt if you decide to keep your mouth shut.
I’ll just echo the general sentiment-- don’t worry about it. No matter what you tell them, you’ll never get what your car is worth for a trade-in. Even if it’s in excellent shape, you’d be lucky to get the price for a vehicle in “Fair” condition according to Kelley Blue Book. Don’t mention the stuff that’s wrong with it, and you might get something closer to its actual worth.
FWIW, I plan on doing the exact same thing as soon as I can afford a down payment. My '96 Camry is going to wheeze its last in the next 6 months, and I’m determined it’ll die in their arms, not mine.
Don’t sweat it, it’s all a crap shoot in the used car market anyway. Most people aren’t going to expect a vehicle with 182K on it to be in great shape.
If you’re not specifically asked what’s wrong with the vehicle, don’t volunteer information.
Exactly. They either do this, or have it fixed up by their own shop (guys who are there on the clock anyway, so it’s negligible cost to the dealer), and turn around and sell it from their used lot for about 80% over what they gave you.
Car dealers are experts at determining how much your car is worth, and offering a fraction of it. One lemon will be averaged out across all the cars that they paid too little for. However, the the problem probably won’t be found until some other schmo has blindly bought it, which puts you in the same moral position as selling it privately.
Now I’ll hijack with my own anecdote about selling a lemon.
We had a '96 Outback that had constant problems. The “check engine” light would come on, it would die while we were driving it, it would overheat occasionally… We spent thousands of dollars trying to fix it. Finally, our mechanic told us, “The next thing we would try is replacing the head gasket, but that would cost more in labor than the value of the car, so I suggest selling it before it dies completely.”
So, we found a buyer this summer. We told him that we had spent a lot on repairs, but not that there were known outstanding issues. I went along as he test-drove it, and watched nervously as the thermometer crept up past the top of the scale. He didn’t notice that, only that the air conditioning had stopped blowing cold air. After a little while, the thermometer crept back down, and the cold air resumed. He went ahead and bought it.
A few days later, he came back. He had polished it up, and told us, “Great news! My mechanic found the problem. It had a cracked block!” He felt that he should warn us away from the garage that we had been using, because they couldn’t find the cracked block. To him, the car was worth the price he had paid plus the repairs. I don’t know much about cars, but my guess is that some time when it overheated, he continued driving it until the block cracked.
I’ve traded in probably half dozen cars and they’ve never asked me anything about any of them. I wouldn’t volunteer info, but if asked I’d say its ok as far as you know- it’s not like they wouldn’t lie to you, if it was in their best interest. I wouldn’t hide the problems if selling to an individual, but we all know car salesmen are the biggest lying assholes on the planet, so don’t think twice.
Thanks for your replies! You guys pretty much echo my own sentiment. Realistically, I don’t expect to get all that much for it (I sold my '89 4Runner with 240K for to a guy for $4000). As you said, it’ll go direct to a wholesaler and then to auction, where any buyer knows that their taking their chances.
I’m just sad to give this one up–I can’t really justify getting another one. Both of my 4Runners were just terrific vehicles, taking me from coast to coast and border to border over the last 18 years. The love affair is over now, I’m afraid…all that’s left is a broken engine and a broken heart. (soon to be replaced by a broken pocketbook)
I suggest not buying your next car from a Toyota dealer. Not to say Toyotas aren’t wonderful cars, but their salesmen are the worst crooks. You can buy a slightly used Toyota or get a new one from a Broker, instead of a Dealer.