The Fathers Manifesto isn't going away...

It’s growing and getting sicker. Like an itchy scab I can’t leave alone, I went back to see what those twisted little fuckers were up to these days. Appears they’ve got a new scapegoat. All the world’s problems that they used to blame on women they now blame on Jews.

Now Jews are responsible for drunk driving, low test scores, adultery, Madam Curie, etc., etc., ad nauseum, that women used to be responsible for. “Used to be” is probably too strong of a term. I didn’t read too much, but there’s probably a “women are the puppets of the Jews” conspiracy in there somewhere. They seem to think everyone else is, why not women, too?

What sickens and saddens me the most is that they use quotes from our Founding Fathers to defend their position. I’ve used their quotes to illustrate how we all deserve equality, they use their quotes to illustrate how some deserve discrimination and hate. It’s not fair! :mad: :frowning:

The Father’s Manifesto bastards have the right to say what they want, but I have the right to disapprove loudly and often. Twisted sacks of shit.

Holy mother of St. Germaine.

The Spainish Inquisition Hoax???


I just skimmed over most of it because it was making me break out in hives, but GAH!!

Stupid bastards


All I can say is we need so add clorine to gene pool right away ! Those jerkasses are indeed slime. How damn-it dare they claim to be Christian when being Christian is to be a follower of Christ, who for the information of those idiots was a Jew ! I wonder how they reconcile that bit of information with their views !

I have to go shower now. I feel dirty from looking at that trash.

I read a little further… God, it’s horrible :frowning:

One of the things that strikes me about his throwing around quotes from the FF, particularly Jefferson, is that they weren’t “good Christians” either and had equally harsh words about Christianity. The Father’s Manifesto dickwad keeps whining about Jewish judges and so on who never put their hand on the “Holy Bible” when sworn in while ignoring the fact that the first half of the Bible was written by Jews! Even worse, Jefferson himself attempted to “rectify” the situation by writing a new version of the Bible. Do you think that is the Bible the Father’s Manifesto assholes use? Doubtful.

But . . but they must be right! They have MS Excel graphs! And links to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion! It all has to be true!

Really, this is disinformation at its finest. Whoever puts this shit together is a brilliant propogandist. And I hope he accidentally gets into the tub with a hairdryer.

My favorite is this American Highway Holocaust, where it’s “proved” that blacks cause most highway accidents, and MADD has actually *increased[\i] deaths! :rolleyes:

They do have plenty of charts and graphs, though! The time these people have put into this stuff is scary …


Those dirty bastards!! Twisting the words of Thomas Jefferson, of all people!!! That has gone too far. And cripes, he was a deist!! AND he was in favor of freedom of religion.

But that’s besides the point. People who would write that and use Hitler to support their arguments. Sickening…

I haven’t found anything on the Jefferson quote, yet, but the quotes from George Washington and Benjamin Franklin are lies.

Washington’s quote is accurate except (note the “Jews” is in parentheses), it was an observation made of money speculators hurting the chances that the war would succeed. It might be popular to make the utterly unfounded assumption that all money speculators are Jews, but that is not what Washington said.

Franklin’s “quote” was made up of whole cloth in the 1930’s. There is no Pinckney Diary and the man who “discovered” the statement in the non-existent diary was an American Nazi sympathizer, William Dudley Pelley.

Wow…that’s the fastest I’ve ever gotten a headache.

Why is anyone surprised? It’s just business as usual.

Thank you, tom, very, very much. I believe I’ll pass that information on (little good that might do, but it will make me feel a little better to have done something to fight ignorance besides whining and moaning).

Would that this were true…

It would have changed my high school years immensely!

Don’t forget that one of the fastest growing organized crime syndicates in the U.S., the Russian Mafia, is almost totally Jewish.

I’m a masochist. I wrote to them. I admit, I was ruder than I probably should have been, but I was so disgusted by their site that I spoke rashly. Still, I don’t think my adjectives to describe them and their site were any worse than anything they say about Jews, blacks, women, etc. Anyway, here’s what I wrote (information about Franklin and Washington was taken from Tom’s post above):

Subj: Founding Fathers’ quotes on the Fathers’ Manifesto page
Date: 1/20/01 3:49:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Gr8kat1
To: webmaster
CC: [every damn e-mail on their page, most of which bounced. I’m shocked even one got through]
To those behind the Fathers’ Manifesto’s “Talmudite” page:

Your site sickens and repulses me. But, while you have the right to speak your (microcephalic) minds, you do not have the right to put false words into the mouths of the Founding Fathers or misrepresent their beliefs.

George Washington: His quote was about money speculators hurting the chances of the war succeeding. While you can argue the specious stereotype that all Jews are money speculators, that was not Washington’s intent.

Benjamin Franklin: That quote was totally made up in the 1930’s. The “Pinkney Diary” was a falsehood made up by American Nazi sympathizer William Dudley Pelley. It DOESN’T EXIST.

Thomas Jefferson: He was no fan of the Jewish faith, but he had equally little good to say on the Christian faith. Some quotes that back up that fact:

On the Trinity: “It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one . . . But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies.,” Letter to John Adams, 1813

On the Book of Revelation: [it is] merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

On the divinity of Christ: “To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing
he never claimed any other.” Letter to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803

On Judaism v. Christianity: “Jews. Their system was Deism; that is, the belief in one only God. But their ideas of him and of his attributes were degrading and injurious. He [Jesus] corrected the Deism of the Jews, confirming them in their belief of one only God, and giving them juster notions of his attributes and government.” Ibid.

If you really prefer Thomas Jefferson’s view of Judaism, then you should read his version of the Bible. I would think you would like it because he did away with the Old Testament which was written by those “Talmudites.” You can read the King James Version of the Jefferson Bible at:

The New International Version is at

In conclusion, wild accusations and fancy graphs do not “the truth” make. If you really respect the Founding Fathers and what they were trying to accomplish, you will stop misrepresenting their views and their words in such an ignorant and libelous manner.

Katheryn Saunders

And they responded thus:

Subj: Re: Founding Fathers’ quotes on the Fathers’ Manifesto page
Date: 1/23/01 10:20:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: webmaster
To:, and lots of people with words like “revolutionist” and “Holy War” in their addys

Ordinarily we would thank anybody, no matter how rude or ignorant, for a valid critique. But your rude, ignorant,
and inaccurate critique qualifies you for only one response:

You BONEHEADED LIBERALS should be taken to the city gates and stoned.

Your very own citation refutes your statement that: “Thomas Jefferson… had equally little good to say on the Christian faith”. Are you REALLY so ignorant as to make such a STUPID statement and then follow it up with a citation of Thomas Jefferson which REFUTES your own statement? You say that Thomas Jefferson wrote:

“To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed,
opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian,
in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his
doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human
excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.” Letter to Benjamin
Rush, April 21, 1803
This is a far more serious level of support for Christianity than 99% of today’s “politicians” would dare utter.

Nevertheless, a quarter of a billion Americans who are Christians agree 100% with Thomas Jefferson’s rejection of American “churches” and share his faith in the purity of Jesus Christ. The fact that you don’t see the difference, and that you “think” that this is proof that Thomas Jefferson “had equally little good to say …” is testament only to the ABSURD and failed and miserable and expensive and misleading and FEMINIST/JEWISH American “education” system. Such statements are an even stronger indictment of this “education” system than the TIMSS scores which showed that we scored dead last on more subjects than any other country.

The depths of your abject ignorance evidently know no bounds. Thanks for throwing in rudeness to round out your feminist demeanor.

John Knight

And I reply (prolly foolishly):

You misunderstood Thomas Jefferson’s point. He was saying that, while he agrees with the ideas behind Christianity (i.e., love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do unto you), he did not approve of the divine mumbo-jumbo the “priestcraft” has piled on top of it. “[A]scribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other” means that he believed Jesus was a mortal man and never claimed to be the son of God. See The Jefferson Bible at for more evidence of his view of Jesus’ life and teachings.

I reply simply with more quotes from the wise Mr. Jefferson:

On religious tolerance: “Your sect (Judaism) by its sufferings has furnished a remarkable proof of the universal spirit of religious intolerance inherent in every sect, disclaimed by all while feeble, and practiced by all when in power. Our laws have applied the only antidote to this vice, protecting all on an equal footing. But more remains to be done, for although we are free by law, we are not so in practice; public opinion erects itself into an Inquisition, and exercises its offices with as much fanaticism as fans the flames of an Auto-da-Fé.” Thomas Jefferson

On religious leaders commentating on science and government: “Whenever… preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.” --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815.

On religious leaders being excluded from public schools and government functions: “Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions.” --Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817

“The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.” --Thomas Jefferson to Jeremiah Moor, 1800.

“The clergy…believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.” --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.

On Christian missionaries in foreign countries: “I do not know that it is a duty to disturb by missionaries the religion and peace of other countries, who may think themselves bound to extinguish by fire and fagot the heresies to which we give the name of conversions, and quote our own example for it. Were the Pope, or his holy allies, to send in mission to us some thousands of Jesuit priests to convert us to their orthodoxy, I suspect that we should deem and treat it as a national aggression on our peace and faith.” --Thomas Jefferson to Michael Megear, 1823.

Bonus from James Madison:
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” James Madison, 1785, “Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments.”

Good day, Gentlman.
Katheryn Saunders.

So go ahead, tell me I’m a fool and a jerk for even caring. sniffle Validate me? Was I wrong?

Validation? Oh yeah. You may be beating your head against a wall, but you are doing a good thing. And it’s entertaining for others to read. A win-win for all, I’d say.

I am doing a good thing? Thanks :slight_smile: I’m just feeling a little distraught right now because I just realized I have another e-mail from them in my in-box. It took all my courage to read the first one. And it just occurred to me (yeah, I’m a slow learner) that I am just throwing my pearls before the swine, and, yes, they are turning to rend me. I guess I hoped at least one person would say, “Hey, I didn’t realize this organization was that evil, thanks for letting me know, I’m going to tell them to delete my name from their files right now!” God, I’m naive :frowning:

FWIW, I don’t think you were wrong. Ignorance is blind, even under the glaring spolight of truth.

I also don’t think your letter was rude. I’m sure they get a lot of mail far more rude than yours was. In fact, theirs was much worse. I think he doth protest too much.

My husband had to come check to see why I’m sitting at the computer laughing like a maniac: I finally summoned the strength to read the second message. It says simply:

Could it be that my naive wish came true? Hallelujah!!

Maybe you should invite them over to Great Debates for a round or two :wink:

umm, on second thought, maybe not …


John Knight (Mr. Manifesto) has sent me another e-mail. This one has a file attached. I’m too chickenshit to open it. Do you think the file is just page after page of rhetoric or could it be something more malevolent like a virus? Am I being too paranoid? Should I just hit “delete” and concede the battle? I know I won’t win, but I hate giving up :frowning: On the other hand, I also hate being called a bonehead and stupid and being told I should be stoned. On the third hand, I hate that the Founding Fathers’ words are being twisted to make it look like they support this agenda, and I REALLY hate that they’re all, y’know, dead so they can’t speak up on their own behalf. John Knight is such a creep :mad: