I’m a masochist. I wrote to them. I admit, I was ruder than I probably should have been, but I was so disgusted by their site that I spoke rashly. Still, I don’t think my adjectives to describe them and their site were any worse than anything they say about Jews, blacks, women, etc. Anyway, here’s what I wrote (information about Franklin and Washington was taken from Tom’s post above):
Subj: Founding Fathers’ quotes on the Fathers’ Manifesto page
Date: 1/20/01 3:49:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Gr8kat1
To: webmaster
CC: [every damn e-mail on their page, most of which bounced. I’m shocked even one got through]
To those behind the Fathers’ Manifesto’s “Talmudite” page:
Your site sickens and repulses me. But, while you have the right to speak your (microcephalic) minds, you do not have the right to put false words into the mouths of the Founding Fathers or misrepresent their beliefs.
George Washington: His quote was about money speculators hurting the chances of the war succeeding. While you can argue the specious stereotype that all Jews are money speculators, that was not Washington’s intent.
Benjamin Franklin: That quote was totally made up in the 1930’s. The “Pinkney Diary” was a falsehood made up by American Nazi sympathizer William Dudley Pelley. It DOESN’T EXIST.
Thomas Jefferson: He was no fan of the Jewish faith, but he had equally little good to say on the Christian faith. Some quotes that back up that fact:
On the Trinity: “It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one . . . But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies.,” Letter to John Adams, 1813
On the Book of Revelation: [it is] merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
On the divinity of Christ: “To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing
he never claimed any other.” Letter to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803
On Judaism v. Christianity: “Jews. Their system was Deism; that is, the belief in one only God. But their ideas of him and of his attributes were degrading and injurious. He [Jesus] corrected the Deism of the Jews, confirming them in their belief of one only God, and giving them juster notions of his attributes and government.” Ibid.
If you really prefer Thomas Jefferson’s view of Judaism, then you should read his version of the Bible. I would think you would like it because he did away with the Old Testament which was written by those “Talmudites.” You can read the King James Version of the Jefferson Bible at:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_jefferson/life_and_morals/
The New International Version is at http://members.aol.com/gr8kat1/KatGen/life_morals.htm
In conclusion, wild accusations and fancy graphs do not “the truth” make. If you really respect the Founding Fathers and what they were trying to accomplish, you will stop misrepresenting their views and their words in such an ignorant and libelous manner.
Katheryn Saunders
And they responded thus:
Subj: Re: Founding Fathers’ quotes on the Fathers’ Manifesto page
Date: 1/23/01 10:20:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: webmaster
To: Gr8kat1@aol.com, and lots of people with words like “revolutionist” and “Holy War” in their addys
Kathryn,
Ordinarily we would thank anybody, no matter how rude or ignorant, for a valid critique. But your rude, ignorant,
and inaccurate critique qualifies you for only one response:
You BONEHEADED LIBERALS should be taken to the city gates and stoned.
Your very own citation refutes your statement that: “Thomas Jefferson… had equally little good to say on the Christian faith”. Are you REALLY so ignorant as to make such a STUPID statement and then follow it up with a citation of Thomas Jefferson which REFUTES your own statement? You say that Thomas Jefferson wrote:
“To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed,
opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian,
in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his
doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human
excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.” Letter to Benjamin
Rush, April 21, 1803
This is a far more serious level of support for Christianity than 99% of today’s “politicians” would dare utter.
Nevertheless, a quarter of a billion Americans who are Christians agree 100% with Thomas Jefferson’s rejection of American “churches” and share his faith in the purity of Jesus Christ. The fact that you don’t see the difference, and that you “think” that this is proof that Thomas Jefferson “had equally little good to say …” is testament only to the ABSURD and failed and miserable and expensive and misleading and FEMINIST/JEWISH American “education” system. Such statements are an even stronger indictment of this “education” system than the TIMSS scores which showed that we scored dead last on more subjects than any other country.
The depths of your abject ignorance evidently know no bounds. Thanks for throwing in rudeness to round out your feminist demeanor.
John Knight
And I reply (prolly foolishly):
You misunderstood Thomas Jefferson’s point. He was saying that, while he agrees with the ideas behind Christianity (i.e., love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do unto you), he did not approve of the divine mumbo-jumbo the “priestcraft” has piled on top of it. “[A]scribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other” means that he believed Jesus was a mortal man and never claimed to be the son of God. See The Jefferson Bible at http://members.aol.com/gr8kat1/KatGen/life_morals.htm for more evidence of his view of Jesus’ life and teachings.
I reply simply with more quotes from the wise Mr. Jefferson:
On religious tolerance: “Your sect (Judaism) by its sufferings has furnished a remarkable proof of the universal spirit of religious intolerance inherent in every sect, disclaimed by all while feeble, and practiced by all when in power. Our laws have applied the only antidote to this vice, protecting all on an equal footing. But more remains to be done, for although we are free by law, we are not so in practice; public opinion erects itself into an Inquisition, and exercises its offices with as much fanaticism as fans the flames of an Auto-da-Fé.” Thomas Jefferson
On religious leaders commentating on science and government: “Whenever… preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.” --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815.
On religious leaders being excluded from public schools and government functions: “Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions.” --Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817
“The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.” --Thomas Jefferson to Jeremiah Moor, 1800.
“The clergy…believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.” --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.
On Christian missionaries in foreign countries: “I do not know that it is a duty to disturb by missionaries the religion and peace of other countries, who may think themselves bound to extinguish by fire and fagot the heresies to which we give the name of conversions, and quote our own example for it. Were the Pope, or his holy allies, to send in mission to us some thousands of Jesuit priests to convert us to their orthodoxy, I suspect that we should deem and treat it as a national aggression on our peace and faith.” --Thomas Jefferson to Michael Megear, 1823.
Bonus from James Madison:
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” James Madison, 1785, “Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments.”
Good day, Gentlman.
Katheryn Saunders.
So go ahead, tell me I’m a fool and a jerk for even caring. sniffle Validate me? Was I wrong?
I’m just feeling a little distraught right now because I just realized I have another e-mail from them in my in-box. It took all my courage to read the first one. And it just occurred to me (yeah, I’m a slow learner) that I am just throwing my pearls before the swine, and, yes, they are turning to rend me. I guess I hoped at least one person would say, “Hey, I didn’t realize this organization was that evil, thanks for letting me know, I’m going to tell them to delete my name from their files right now!” God, I’m naive 