Is it the will of god that man remains ignorant?
No.
J. R. R. Tolkien writes about “The Long Defeat”, a noble but impossible battle.
No victory is complete, because ignorance rises again, and even victory breeds its own ignorance.
But we still have to fight it.
On the one hand, ignorance can never be defeated, because there are always new people coming up, and for that matter there will always be some people who are more ignorant (or less ignorant) than others. Progress can still be made; the level that we call abysmally ignorant is much higher now than it used to be.
The fight against ignorance (i.e., lack of knowledge) can never be won.
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New people keep being born without knowledge of the world. Eliminating ignorance would mean developing perfect teaching techniques.
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Even with perfect teaching techniques, people do not have the capacity to have knowledge about all things. The best we can do is expect them to not “know” things that are not true.
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Even if we can perfectly teach new people so that they only know true things, we do not have a perfect system for separating truth from falsehood. The best system we have (science) only attempts to understand measurable phenomena, and only via iteratively improved approximations.
So the best case is that all children learn a subset of our best current understandings of the world. And even then ignorance will be rampant.
Is it ?
People rarely think their rulers have a divine mandate or are literal gods. Except in North Korea.
It’s a bit of a step up, there.
I think one problem you’ll run into here is that ignorance is, in part, always socially defined - and that social definition changes constantly. We look back today at the ignorance of supporting the slave trade based on our social lens - perhaps in the future, folks will look back on us with scorn for our own ignorance in handling civil rights. And perhaps some economic condition will arise in the future that, future-future people will feel was handled ignorantly.
Add to that the consideration that the mere fact that we generate new, raw information every day doesn’t necessarily mean an increasing number of people are learning that information. If a smaller group of individuals become more closely knit and intelligent over time, but the rest of humanity wanders around in slack-jawed dur-ness, then are we a more or less ignorant race overall?
Lastly, how do you define ignorance? If it’s the simple state of “not knowing something,” then we’re all well and truly boned because it’s simply not within the capacity of the normal human to learn and retain every last scrap of knowledge available. We’re all always going to be ignorant of something. I can tell you all about how Option Two Universal Life works, but I only have the barest concept of what a quark is.
No it is the free will of man that desires to obtain wisdom and knowledge on his own, to be self sufficient, and to bring recognition for his ability. God just allows man to have his way till man, one by one, realizes that they really have no wisdom in themselves and don’t want to be self sufficient, and really have a desire for a Father God to look after them and care for them.
How can one obtain this alleged wisdom on his own if it’s simultaneously true that man can’t come to wisdom? If man can’t come to wisdom, wouldn’t follow that he doesn’t make wise choices? Would it not then be definitionally unwise to turn to god since man is thus incapable of having wisdom and consequently making wise choices?
I do want to be self-sufficient. Indeed, even god doesn’t help those who don’t help themselves. One would think that requires at least some good portion of self sufficiency.
I also take particular issue with the idea that wisdom and knowledge are beyond the ambit of man. We are uniquely gifted with a powerful mind. Presumably, some of us even know how to use it.
I was going to say something like this but **Quagdop **(and the Professor) said it way way better.
We have met the enemy and he is Kanicbird (and his ilk)
I’m in basic agreement with aldiboronti. I don’t see any net decrease in ignorance, merely a sideways shift in it. For instance, a modern intellectual might well brag about the fact that he no longer believes in witches, demons, and so forth. However, he probably does believe in string theory, multiple universes, inherited modules in human brains that control our behavior, and various other things that don’t exist or at least have no real evidence going for them. Hence he has no right to look down his nose at previous generations.
I disagree with this notion. String theory and multiple universes are hypothesis made up by some of the greatest mathematical minds available today to explain observations we can make. They’re not made up by people who are looking to explain the world with magical thinking - but people honestly attempting to use the scientific method to explain what we know about the universe.
Now they may certainly be incorrect, but now we’re at a stage where we’re attempting to collect more evidence to support or disprove these claims. They’re different from someone attempting to create something supernatural to explain the basic forces of nature.
Some of the implications of quantum physics are very weird and counterintuitive to humans - but that does not mean our attempts to understand it are magical thinking.
As far as brain modules, I’m not sure what you’re referring to so I can’t comment.
Very simply seek God to the best of your ability. If that means visiting a Hindu temple, or going on a vision quest, or reading the Bible, or attending worship services, whatever method you use, as long as your intention of your heart is to seek God - it is His job to find you, His job to give you the wisdom you seek.
Yes, all mans efforts are foolishness and worthless.
One thing that man is wise enough to figure out is he is not wise enough to figure things out. I think we see this pattern and conclusion in many philosophies. Also we see the pattern of turning to the spiritual to help us, contacting beings with greater wisdom and vision then man.
Quite the opposite, that saying is not in scripture, God helps those who wait on the Lord, if you help yourself God will allow you to do it, and you may get what you want, but it will not be the good long term result that God desires for you. You can see this with King Saul who helped himself many times and God eventually left Saul, and ripped the kingdom from him, handing it to King David who is the one who waited on the Lord and knew that he needed the Lord.
My own experience is at one time I wanted to be self sufficient, I didn’t want to depend on man, or to a lesser extent the earth (wanting to be ‘pollution’ neutral). God allowed much of it, and I found out that is the opposite of what God wants for us, and the opposite of what we want. We are made to interact and be interdependent, building each other up. Having needs means that you can thank God when someone meets those needs, filling others needs means you can thank God for that good feeling you can get by helping others. Both giver and receiver should benefit (IMHO equally) from helping, this way God gets the glory. Being self sufficient means not only are you blocking others from helping you (and denying them any benefit) but also you are blocked from helping others. There is no lifting up of each other, and no glory goes to God, and pride of self sufficiency sets in, which is glory stolen from God.
As I pointed out above, the most brilliant minds usually reach the conclusion of how little the do know and many turn to wisdom not from man, but from the spiritual.
I seek knowledge, which is anathema to the god of which you speak.
I remember reading something somewhere that to call a man a fool is to be cast into brimstone and fire. I wonder where I might have read that.
So, all that man does is foolish and unwise, except for when he decides he’s a fool and ignorant? If it’s true that all man’s actions are foolish, then seeking out god must necessarily be foolish. Thank you, no.
Cite? Just because something’s written in the good book doesn’t mean it’s true. Indeed, the bible is a list of things which didn’t happen. And a book of bad editing. Hell, they can’t even agree on what Jesus’ grandfather’s name is. Or how Judas actually died. To my reading, I’ve found that Judas died at least twice, and in a different way in each story. Now, in a book where creatures die and then get resurrected, it’s entirely possible Judas was. But the one time it did happen in the story, much was made of it. I’d think god resurrecting Judas would have at least been a footnote to Judas having twice killed himself.
There’s nothing like witnessing to handwave away an argument I guess. Here’s my own experience. I asked god one day for wisdom. But he can’t give it to me because, as you’ve noted, man isn’t capable of having wisdom. I guess even god has limits, eh?
Such as who? Who are these brilliant minds who turn away from reasoning and just, in the end, say “God did it.”?
Well, given the smarter/more enlightened one gets the more depressed they generally become (…and that whole ‘ignorance is bliss’ thing), I doubt it was ever a fight to begin with. More like an utter fustigation at the hands of the merciless dullards. :rolleyes:
Is this your own observation, or is there some sort of actual studied evidence suggesting this?
I agree with the notion, I’m just wondering if it’s been analyzed objectively in some way.
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t any scientific analysis of this ‘phenomenon’ and that it didn’t in fact buttress my assertion. I am not aware of such a study however. But the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, as they say, and it’s hard to deny that the more one understands how the world around them works, the more difficult it is not to feel impotent and defeated. : /