GusNSpot,
I am amazed that you have a CCW on your record but you are still allowed to own and carry a concealed weapon.
Or did I understand you correctly?
If that is true, I sure would love to live in the USA. I don’t know whether to believe you or not. But I really enjoyed reading your posts and I wish you all the best.
The fighting skills of the average man are about the speed of this famous clip from Bridget Jones: Bridget Jones's Diary. Fight Scene #1 - YouTube
GusNSpot says: “If I see a young person or persons going down the street on the University campus sucker punching everyone as they pass, I should just stand there, I can’t run anymore. Try to call 911 or pull a 1911 and put them down? Both would be best I think but if someone has mot already called and I don’t hear sirens, that just calling thing might be a waste of time, ya think?”
I really had a hard time deciphering the rambling prose of this post but after I did I came to the conclusion that none of these scenarios exist in any way other than as delusions in your head. “Sucker punching everyone as they pass”?! Wha? What are you even talking about?!
I think he may be talking about Wilding or The Knockout Game or Flash Mob violence or something. It is harder to follow him when he tosses semi-fictional background material in wih the rest of the word salad.
Gus when someone on the internet claims they have been hit by lightening, something that happens to one out of 12,000, well, that one person could be posting here. Sure. Could be. When someone claims they have been hit by lightening twice, the odds of which are one in 144 million (unless they have some profession that puts them at much greater risk) my skeptic’s alarm dings mightily. And yeah I suspect that Roy Sullivan with his claim of 7 times was a fake, a Munchausen case.
When that same person also then claims that a variety of other extremely uncommon things have happened to him and his immediate family?
Let’s just say these are extremely extraordinary claims but hey, on the internet everyone is a French supermodel.
(Yes searching I see that Una at least bought your lightening story, albeit with the year of 1959 given then for the hay field one. And that Cecil accepts the Roy Sullivan claim as well.)
Umm.
A CCW means concealed carry.
Or maybe that was a whoosh, in which case carry on.
I’ll just be over here, unarmed, not fighting, feeling quite safe and not acting like a scared little girl who finds the world a vewwy vewwy threatening and scary place. Unlike some people.
The odds of getting struck by lightning multiple times are not independent. Someone who works outdoors a lot in an area prone to thunderstorms (like Roy Sullivan) has a much higher chance of getting struck.
The other thing to keep in mind is that while the chance of an extremely unlikely event happening to any given person is just that, extremely unlikely, the chance of an extremely unlikely event happening to some person can actually be pretty reasonable. Do you have any particular reason to disbelieve Roy’s claims?
Let us even imagine that given geographical predisposition and occupation his risk was 100 times greater than the quoted risk. 1 in 120 to the 7th power. One person out of 3,583,180,800,000 would be struck 7 times. The odds of that happening to any single person on this planet over the last thousand or so years is pretty damn unlikely, let alone happening to occur in the last century.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is all. The less unlikely possibility is he faked it.
I was very active in martial arts from my teens up to my early 20s, and to a lesser degree afterwards. In my experience practically nobody has any conception of how to handle themselves in a violent confrontation without actively seeking out that knowledge. There may be a few naturals out there, but they’re few and far between.
Instead of him defying the odds I would tend to think his odds of getting hit were much greater than we might predict. .
This forum is quite possibly the worst place to get information about fighting I have found. It’s almost all people talking out of their ass, or using 30 years out of date thinking.
Seals are not some unarmed supermen. They kill people with guns, and are amazing at it. There have been PLENTY of special forces guys in MMA. They have never done anything special. So go ahead and move the goalposts to the tried and true “T00 D3ADLY FER THE RING!” argument, as if anyone that knows better will buy it.
It’s like the SDMB is stuck in the 70’s martial arts wise. We have a PRETTTTTY good idea who the best fighters in the world are, they’re the ones who train against resisting opponents and compete at the highest levels against each other. These people are boxers, kick boxers, grapplers, and MMA fighters. People who do pretend fighting because it’s “too deadly to train” are worthless.
Also, the average man is TERRIBLE at fighting, and cannot even throw a basic 1-2 combination properly without hurting himself. This will vary by region though, the average Russian streetfight is at amateur-MMA caliber compared to the average American streetfight. Guns are popular here for a reason.
All’s I can say is that if I’m going to fight a guy, I don’t care how big he is. I care how many brothers he grew up with. That’s how you know what you’re getting into.
Kennedy has done fair to middling in MMA.
The Criminal Justice System is very different in different states and different jurisdictions.
In my jurisdiction, CCW is short for the crime of “Carrying a Concealed Weapon” and it is a serious crime. If you are caught carrying a concealed weapon, you get charged with a CCW and you can spend a whole lot of time in prison.
Now, I need to find out what “a whoosh” means.
And funny enough, no one here has stated they are. Towards one clustered end of the spectrum compared to a lot of average Joes, yes.
Here is the claim that evoked all the “You crazy boy!” sort of response:
The question on the table is not average SEAL vs professional mixed martial arts competitors. It’s astro’s absurd belief that of the your typical “experienced” bar tough in “decent shape” has some amazing fighting skills. Yes, the far end of the hand to hand fighting ability spectrum is likely occupied by people who do that skill in a pretty much any form allowable manner and who train for that specific skill intensely. Given equal conditioning and one person trained intensively in MMA in an ongoing manner and one trained a bit in some MMA and not using it regularly (the SEAL), the former would very likely come out in better shape. But an “experienced bar fighter” whooping either of them? Be real.
BTW, not so sure how well a professional boxer would do in a fight in which people also kick and grab and tackle and gouge either. Better than the bar tough, sure, maybe better than the equally conditioned SEAL, but probably not at the very top.
Point being that despite astro’s fan boy belief, the typical “experienced bar fighter” does not likely have some amazing fighting skills. They have what they need - a skill at picking a target they can handle and more experience at fighting than that average bar patron. Not a high bar that.
BTW, do you have any basis for your elevation of typical Russian street fights to MMA levels? Cause I gotta tell you these videos don’t seem to look like mad fighting skillz to me.
Kimbo slice was an exceptional street fighter but couldn’t compete at mma levels. A cop one time beat him in a street fight. When a Navy seal is in top physical condition he would do very well in a street fight. One year out of training and a good street fighter of equal size and strength would get my bet.
You overstate Moscali toughness. You understate the toughness of the US socio-economic groups where street fighting is still a reality. All of the US is not Starbucks-sucking suburbanite white kids.
Yes compared to an average schlub I would bet on the special forces guy to. In a fair fight (as in, not a surprise attack) in a bar on on the streets, I will always pick the guy who trains full contact against resisting opponents against the guy who trains mostly to hike with a big backpack, gather intelligence, shoot people, and maybe a bit of hand to hand, in that order. Everytime. And you’re a freaking fool and you believe in magic powers if you think Spec Ops guys are better at hand to hand combat than guys who train at it longer and focus on it more than them.
In this and other threads people have claimed Special Forces guys would best martial artists in streetfights because they “train to kill”, which is utter bullshit and I don’t know a single actual fighter or martial artist who is impressed.
Quite a few of the MMA champions we know of now have been experienced bar fighters, and yes they would probably maul a SEAL before they became serious MMA competitors. Again, you have more hours fighting than a Seal and are in equivelent shape, why wouldn’t you be better at it? The extraordinary claim in this instance, which should be common sense, but is probably twisted by American military wankery, is that a Spec Ops guy can be better at something he does less often than someone else because of “aggression” and “survival instinct”. You cannot “survival instinct” your way out of a choke or getting hit in the jaw. This is fantasy kids stuff.
Again, most professional boxers come from crap neighborhoods and have been in lots of scraps BEFORE they learn how to have proficient hands. A boxer with a little takedown defense has proven to be one of the best possible ways to fight.
My argument would be mainly that the average man is so poor at fighting, and doesn’t even know the basics, that most bar toughs are semi-professionals compared to them and they have no chance. Until a man has been hit in the face or guts by someone with evil intent, that man has no idea how he will react in a real fight. A bar tough is not going to freeze up the moment he has been hit unless it is a KO. I have seen many people cover up or freeze once they get hit: It is so far out of their experience, they are not used to the sensation and don’t know what to do. Most men fantasize about how much ass they’d kick, but they don’t mentally prepare for taking their licks to do it.
You need to learn a bit about Russian culture. That isn’t a streetfight, that is called “Russian Fist Fighting”, it is not a streetfight. It is a pastime and local sport in Russia going back hundreds of years. The fact that you even posted that as an example of Russian streetfighting tells me all I need to know…exactly what technique do you think you can show in a fight of hundreds of people in close quarters? They will look the same worldwide. The point of fist fighting is not even to destroy your opponents like a streetfight, it is a test of manhood, courage and toughness.
I will counter with the following Russian or Ex-soviet state (I train in a Russian Martial art but don’t know any Russian, so I can’t say for sure where all of these take place, I hope you understood I meant “Russian” in a general slavic type of sense and not strictly the current Russian nation):
I said that streetfighting ability is regional, and that includes the US. But I watch streetfighting videos as a minor hobby, and as a martial artist and MMA enthusiast, I consider myself knowlegeable enough to judge the competence of the combatants. Either you don’t watch enough videos, or you aren’t good enough to judge, because just brief exposure to enough streetfighting videos and the difference in skill level between Americans and Russians is STARTLING. They have a culture where most boys know the basics of boxing and even kickboxing. You have to search long and hard to find American streetfighting videos where the boys even know to keep their hands up and set up their big punches with jabs.
BTW, what is “moscali toughness”? 
Only if he trains for hand to hand fighting. SEAL training hand to hand is not enough to beat anyone who has more streetfighting experience than them. In other words, their SEAL training doesn’t carry over to streetfighting, except for physical fitness, unless they train in actual fighting. You could say the same thing about any professional athlete almost. Yes, if they train in fighting, they will be in shape and good at fighting.
Moscali are Russians. You overestimate how hard they are in the street.