Do martial arts actually help defend a person in real attacks?

I have taught self-defense for over 30 years, and I have seen many examples of where correct martial arts training has indeed saved students in real attack situations.

One martial arts student of mine, a banker, was in a bar in New Mexico, wearing a business suit, when a bully slugged in the head, unprovoked. My student went down, but got back up and promptly threw the biker onto his head breaking his neck. He died. Two of the biker’s buddies jumped at my student. My student, although lighter and smaller than any of the bikers, immediately knocked out the other two bikers.

My student was charged with manslaughter, and even though there were many witnesses who testified that it was clear self-defense, and he was acquitted of any charges, it still cost him $60,000 in lawyer fees. Being right doesn’t mean that it will not cost you. Avoid fights, even if you are “right.”

Another martial arts student of mine was also in a bar, in Dallas, Texas, when he was seated at the bar, which he often frequented, and was slugged in the head, again unprovoked, by a customer. My student pounded the assailant’s face with a half dozen blows, then knocked the assailant over a table. The bouncers dragged the assailant outside while patting my student on the back. They even offered him a job as a bouncer, which he declined.

Notice the similarities. In a bar where alcohol is being served. Blind sided with a punch without provocation. Conclusion: stay out of bars. That is where you find drunk, stupid, retarded morons who have something to prove.

I have numerous other stories of like kind from my students also, several from my female students where they successfully defended themselves from male attackers using what I had taught to them.

And, then there is me. I am 62 years old, fat, and out of shape, teach in a college, and have broken up a half dozen fights among students in the 8 years I have been here. I even “fought” a psychotic marine fresh back from Iraq, and one-fourth my age, in a classroom when he attacked me, and fended him off quite successfully without much effort. Without warning, he had tried to elbow me in the face. I dodged, but he managed to break my glasses. I spear-handed him repeatedly in the throat, backing him up all of the way across the room. He tried, but could not land anything else on me, and could not stop me from successfully tagging him with every blow I threw. I pulled the blows so as not to kill him, but I made my point anyway. He gave up and wanted to be my friend for the rest of the term. I didn’t even report the fight, I snapped the lens back into my glasses, and went back to teaching the class as if nothing had happened. He was grateful for that, too.

The secret is that I do not teach a “sport” marital art. I teach actual fighting which is very different from the traditional “sport” marital arts. We train full contact, and include everything the traditional martial arts have plus hair-pulling, eye-gouging, foot-stomping, man-handling, shoving, finger-breaking, and biting.

My students don’t start fights, but they damned sure can end them, and fast.

Are you discussing this column?

Would you agree with this ct?

I tell everybody, especially women, to go ballistic at the first sign of personal danger(attack). By ballistic, I don’t mean using a gun either. I mean to use all the force you have available without regard to injury of the individual.

Previous threads:

[thread=521658]martial artists defeating muggers[/thread]
[thread=523644]Movie fights vs. real fights?[/thread]

Stranger

My ex-husband took tae kwon do classes for about a year. He was already quite athletic – runner, soccer player, weight lifter – so he did quite well. About seven or eight months into his training, he was attacked by five young men on the street in downtown Seattle.

One came swooshing past on a skateboard, stopped, and then picked up his skateboard, turned around and bashed my ex on the arm with it, busting his watch all to hell. The other four, clearly thinking he’d be dazed, descended and started beating on him. He was able to disable all of them within just a few minutes, and they ran off. He was pretty sure he broke one’s arm, at the very least.

Short answer: depends on how you train more than the particular style you follow. If you train for realistic fights, you’ll probably do okay. If you do soft-style meditation-friendly martial arts, you’ll do better than someone who knows nothing. Probably.

Honestly, though, the best way of “winning” a fight is to avoid being in one. I’ve been doing martial arts for half my life, and one of the first things I learned is, if you have to fight you fucked up somewhere. You didn’t see the signs of impending violence, you were in a place you should have avoided, you got suckered, or you just plain had your head up your ass.

Almost all the fights I’ve been in were due to one of those failings, or something much stupider: altruism. I’ve almost gotten killed a couple of times on a stranger’s behalf. That’s not to say I wouldn’t do it again, but I do realize how idiotic it is.

I read it a couple of times and still can’t figure out whether the original post is in jest or not.

I fail to see how breaking someone’s neck is an appropriate response to getting punched in the face.

Well, it’d certainly minimise their ability to throw another one.

There are 15-year-old former marines attending college?

It seems to me that people who are trained to use deadly force should also be trained to better make the judgment on when to use it.

I would love to see some actual cites here if anyone’s got one.

I studied Tae Kwon Do in my early teens. All I really have is one anecdotal story of shutting down a high school bully when I was in Jr. High. She showed up in front of my house with about five teenage boys to egg her on. I stood there while she talked shit for about five minutes, explaining to her that I really didn’t want to fight her and that she was angry with me based on lies she’d been told. She punched me in the face and I nailed her between the legs with a front kick. Then I told her I thought this was quite stupid and had no desire to fight her, and I turned and walked away. The next day she told everyone she had kicked my ass, but she never bothered me again, and I think this is because she found out I was a lot tougher than she thought.

I also have the ‘‘fight’’ impulse when cornered – the above recommendation to ‘‘go ballistic’’ is probably what I’d do when faced with a truly life-threatening situation. I do believing that is a result of martial arts training, as is my acute awareness of my surroundings.

Damn I miss it.

I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who was attacked in a bar as described, where a stranger simply walks up and punches you in the face. Where was this, the old west?

Knowing an effective martial art will definitely help you in a fight, but you had better be really good in order to expect things will turn out well against someone bigger and stronger than you.

I would say the full contact sport disciplines would be the most effective to know – wrestling, jiu-jitsu, boxing, judo, etc – simply because the techniques that don’t work well quickly get weeded out in competition. There is no substitute for being able to practice moves against a fully resisting opponent, and your partner will never let you practice your favorite eye gouge or touch of death.

Because there’s two types of being punched in the face:

  1. TV and Hollywood, where people slug at each other for minutes, breaking furniture over each other, taking punches and laughing good-naturedly and then going off for drinks together, and

  2. Real life, where a single hard punch can break bones, shatter teeth, blind, deafen, and/or otherwise permanently and painfully disfigure someone for life.

So yes, someone who punches a person in the face with no provocation deserves whatever they get as a result. If someone punches me in the face, you better believe as soon as I can get in my purse, provided I’m not incapacitated, they’re going to be facing the barrel of a gun.

And I think the username/post irony is interesting.

It’s rare but not unknown - and it’s not typically 100% random. The cases I knew of were:

  1. Assailant had been told in advance that the guy who hit his girlfriend was at the bar, and the victim was pointed out specifically. Turns out it was the wrong guy.

  2. Assailant was tremendously drunk and thought he heard a racial slur from the victim. No witness in the bar testified that they heard any racial slur, or any conversation at all from the victim, who was watching TV at the time.

In case 1, the victim was knocked out cold and went to the ER. I have no record whether they suffered permanent injuries. In case 2, the victim’s teeth and nose impacted their beer glass, breaking one and knocking out some of the other.

The OP reads like very bad fiction.

Are your students Philadelphia Eagles fans?

cttaylor said:

So, did the guy get therapy, or did you basically leave a “psychotic marine” wandering around ready to attack some other innocent citizen without your training to protect themselves? Stopping him from hurting you is one thing, but what did you do to stop him from hurting others?

I think that part happens off-screen.

I am 95% sure it was meant as a joke.

Czarcasm said:

He said:

So how does that lead to “Oh, and I gave him the number of a counselor I know and said call him, or I’ll kick your ass”? He explicitly states he took away all courses of action that would make the “psychotic” get help. Ergo, what incentive did the guy have to get help, instead of continuing to ignore that he was a bomb with a lit fuse? Did the guy recognize he needed help, or was he just grateful he didn’t get his ass beat down for picking on the wrong person, and want to hang out with someone tougher than himself?