Hi,
In a followup to “Trapped in a dark alley” I would like to hear from any martial arts practitioners who have been involved in a (or of course many) violent confrontation. How useful was your martial arts training?
Many people say that martial arts and self defence are two different things. For example, “taekwondo style kicking will just get you hurt in a real situation” and they make a good case for this and in the classes and seminars I have attended, the techniques have been very different to our very classical martial arts style.
So martial artists, anyone who has been in a violent confrontation, what happened and was your training as useful as you thought it would be?
I have to say the discipline sometimes works better than the actual skills. So there was this girl shooting people on my campus with a rifle and I ran up to her to disarm her. Luckily she was reloading at the time. I yanked away the rifle and she pulled out a foot long hunting knife. She stabbed in a doward manner and I instinctively jumped back.
Now I had taken maybe 4 years of Kung Fu, though it had been a while since I had been in training, and I remembered the exact defense to use. I was actually quite excited to think I was actually going to get to use something I had learned. As I am thinking she stabs again, I sidestep, and she follows through into her own leg. She falls to the ground and gives up. I am standing there thinking, “Damn, now I am never going to get to use what I know.” Weird day.
Keeping a level head and not panicing helped me far more than any technique that time. As for the usefullness of different techniques though, the difference is how comfortable you are with the technique. Tae Kwon Do is a sport more than a fighting style now, so it is out as far as self defence goes, but many other martial arts are still usefull. If you have performed a move a minimum of a thousand times and it is as natural as breathing then go for it. Otherwise kick them in the nads. I know maybe a hundred different techniques, but I would use maybe ten of them in a real fight. With any luck I will never have to.
People don’t want to fight me for some reason, so I’ve never had to use judo. But once, when I was drunk, I did get to choke a drunk friend unconscious at a party once. Does that count? He started taking judo with me after that. It’s amazing how fast somebody goes down when you apply pressure correctly.
I have used my jujutsu training a great deal when living in Ithaca, New York. I would say that it has saved my life a few times and protected me from injury many times.
Much of the town is hilly and steep, with sidewalks that are often never actually shoveled. Safe falling skill, it’s a lifesaver.
As for using training in actual confrontations, I’ve been in a couple of dicey situations, but my use of my training never went beyond simply stepping back and keeping my voice steady. It worked–no fights.
Now, I have had to use martial training once in an actual fight. I was attacked by a dog while walking home from work one night. I did not use jujutsu. I used fencing–and did so unarmed. The dog took a leap at me and found out that a well-placed parry on the side of its jaw not only stopped it in mid-flight but also literally knocked it for a mid-air loop. The dog reconsidered its hasty conclusion that its territory included the street.
I went home and carefully checked my hand–no broken skin, so I felt fortuntate.
I can make the argument that martial arts training makes one more aware of their surroundings and therefore, less likely to get into a fight. From what I know, very few people who ever study martial arts ever want to put what they practice into use. Hurting someone isn’t fun.
So from that perspective, martial arts training is very usefull and most people who study it use it every day in order to be aware of their surroundings and not place themselves in situations where deadly force might be a necessity.
I know it’s not really what you asked, but it’s a different viewpoint I just thought I’d mention.
I think the biggest thing I’ve noticed is that you’re not surprised to see someone trying to hit you.
That’s not a part of normal life for most people, and tends to shake them up some.
Training gives you that initial moment where the reflexes take over and you can block or move or whatever and deal with the situation as it unfolds with a clear head rather than facing the traumatic shock of a violent assault probably coupled with some physical damage.
I’ve had some Shotokan/Kung Fu and more Aikido training, but most of my “fighting” skills come from being a very angry youth until the age of 23 or so. The Aikido philosophy and my education finally enabled me achieve some basic level of peace.
The most useful part that I took away from my studies is my centering skills. The most sucessful self defense situation I ever had was being robbed at gun point as a night cashier- you know how some robbers just love to shoot first and jump the counter to steal. Anyway, I remained very calm when the gentleman held a snub-nose.38 about six inches from my gut and reached over to rob the till. I was able to stand back and memorize his face, eye color, the color of his jumpsuit jacket and pants- as well as spotting the color of his shirt (which came poking out when he reached over the counter). He was trying to conceal its color with the jacket.
I knew I could have disarmed him, but I also knew he wasn’t a shooter (don’t ask me how, I just knew). I just calmly absorbed the details and called 911 to give what the operator said was the most complete discription of a suspect she had ever heard given over the phone. The guy was nailed within 15 minutes. He had ditched the jacket and was walking along in the shirt. He dropped the jacket, money and gun in a trash bin for his partner to pick up. The cops saw that and two waited (hiding) near the bin, while two more got the guy about a block away. They got his partner too. I ID’d the robber in the back of the police car and the detective told me later that he rolled over on his partner about an hour later.
I owe that calmness to my training.
Most of my fights, however, didn’t come close to my training. The aikido helped me the most since I’m basically a grappler with good ground skills. I wish i could say that I remained calm in these fights, but I’m a very angry fighter. I almost enjoy grinding soft parts of anatomy, putting a nice painful joint lock on and breaking opponents fingers or wrists.
Very useful. Very often it is enough to “gauge down” the would be attackers so you don’t need to fight, because only through years of training and practice do you gain a calm and level-headedness most people recognise.
Fortunately, most of the fights I was in involved subduing drunks, not people who needed a good thrashing.
Once there were these six scrawny young punks ganging up on this other scrawny young punk. Just from the way they fought I knew they were completely untrained. I bellowed, “What are you doing?” at the bunch of them. Upon hearing this, they all looked at me, then fled in different directions.
Thanks for all the responses people, I do agree with the POV that through the training you gain a much better awareness of your surroundings and thr prospect of being punched is certainly a lot less intimidating.
I agree with Second Echo - most martial practitioners are not looking for trouble, they are looking to avoid it. The increased awareness and ability to keep a calm head certainly help this.
I’m surprised to hear from grapplers/ground fighters - I would have thought that on the street, going to the floor would be very risky - hard surface, possibility of other attackers taking you by surprise. How’s that worked out for you?
I would have probably broken my neck falling in my sister’s shower were it not for taking judo and learning how to fall.
Probably the biggest change is that since taking judo I haven’t had any bad dreams – I get amped up and ready to fight. I keep telling my sister that she should take karate or something for that very reason.
I usually don’t go down to the ground unless it’s to really ride a shoplifter or someone I make the snap judgement on that he’s acting alone. It has been my experience that most people are fairly easy to stun or wind with a good shoulder or elbow blow to the abdomen/plexus as we impact the floor. Once on the ground I’m usually back up within a second or two with a good lock or subdual hold. The floor drop let’s me get control of the situation fast. (Though 5’11", I’m on the broad and heavy side. Makes take downs easier for me and harder for someone else.)
If I see a multiple attack coming, its the old one step back, two to the side bob and weave while using circles and momentum to throw them out of balance. You’d be surprised how easy it is to actually throw a relatively untrained person into another attacker. Also, broken thumbs, hyper extended elbows and sprained or dislocated shoulders and ribs take the fight right out of most people (especially if you hit the rib a second time). As far as the legs go, I’ve found that breaking a foot doesn’t stop them immediately but does bring them to a dead stop when I smash or stamp it a second time. But I digress.
In short, I go to the ground with an individual to get the fight over with rapidly. In an unsure or multiple attacker situation, I use throws, holds and a few punches (preferably in concert to break or dislocate joints) while moving steadily to keep attackers from cornering me.
Mostly though I just avoid the situation or judge if the value of what’s at stake (like money) is worth the pain the fight will cause. I know I have a tendency toward brutality, but I’ve striven to get it mostly under control.
I have always been careful to avoid risky areas. I studied bujinkan budo taijutsu for several years, this is a group of old style jujitsu schools. The really important things I learnt were how to fall without getting hurt, how to judge distance in a potentially dangerous situation, and how to remain completely calm in such situations. I also found weapon training to be useful, as we trained with a variety of lengths of staves. When travelling allone in foreign countries I would always bring a good walking stick with me. Once you understand the principles and application of stick fighting you can be fairly safe even against multiple opponents, a good stick fighter can easily beat someone twice their size.
Cheers, Bippy
Question: What is a violent confrontation? Are we talking yelling face to face, pushing and shoving, or an exchange of physical assaults? In college my roommates considered fighting to be yelling at someone face to face.
I’ve studied Tae-Kwon-Do, Shaolin Wu-shu, Aikido, and wrestled in school. I’ve found that MA allowed me to be comfortable up close in a confrontation. (fists swinging) Also most moves MA taught to me were almost impossible to use in a fight: spinning and aerial kicks. As far as moves I’ve used in a fight, I’m a one trick pony. My move has worked time and time again and has lasted through the decades.
Remember, most one-on-one fights last less than three minutes and if there’s a crowd it’s broken up before that. Larger fights do last longer, but the fighting that any one combatant does is minimal compared to the length of the mob fight as a whole. And
I’ve been in quite a few fights. I’ve only had about 3 hours of MA training in my life, but what I learned in the first 5 minutes was the biggest help. Just having a good balanced and prepared stance is a huge help in absorbing or avoiding the guy’s first move. Most every fight I’ve ever been in turned into a wrestling match within 10 seconds of the first swing anyway.
It’s funny how no-one you ask, be it in real life or on here, ever lost any fight they were in. There must be a region somewhere in the world full of people that have done nothing but lose fist-fights all their life - for every winner, there has to be a loser somewhere.
Well, for the record - I had 10 years karate (wado-ryu - includes striking, grappling and throws), including competition, a bit of judo at school, and 3 years full-contact kick-boxing (not the cardio stuff!)
I am a pretty hefty guy - 6’0 and 230lbs - but I can honestly say that whenever I’ve been in a confrontational situation, that looked like it would lead to a fist fight, I’ve been terrified. Somehow, there’s a mental disconnect between knowing how to fight, and actually wanting, or being willing, to put it into practice. I’m pretty sure that if physically attacked I’d at least be able to hold my own, but I get psyched out pretty easily - most situations I’ve been in I’ve defused with sheer terror. Maybe it’s because I did martial arts for so many years, and got hit so much (especially in kick-boxing…the instructor had studied muay thai in Thailand and it was a hard class) that I’m extra aware of how much damage can get done to both people in an out and out fist fight.
I’d jump on the band-wagon and say how much judo has saved my life from falls. I survived a 50mph motorcycle crash with only a skinned knee. My fork seals blew and the handle bars rocked violently back and forth and ultimately threw me over the bars. I rolled out of the fall and up onto my feet and ice-skated on asphalt (thank god I was wearing cowboy boots, sneakers would have caught) for a good distance before jumping out of the way of my crashed bike and an oncoming truck. No lies! As soon as I stopped I thought “Damn! Did anyone get that on video?!?!”
I also agree with Darrens, I’ve done kickboxing and met some scary people. One trainer lifted me up off my feet and threw me backwards onto my ass with a front kick while I was holding the kicking pad. If that pad wasn’t there I’m sure he would have broken every rib I had. If more people like that exist in the real world, the last thing I want to do is get in a fight with them.
DarrenS I’ll freely admit I have lost fights. I’ve been slammed and pinned against a jeep at least two feet off the ground by a monster of a man. If it weren’t for someone I know, who may remain nameless, I’d probable be typing with my nose. At 6ft 230lbs, size alone is your advantage to psyching someone out of a fight. And I’m with you on being terrified before a fight. When I know the situation has gone past words I do what I can to provoke my opponent to strike, which usually doesn’t take much at that point. The fear is intense, but the adrenaline rush after a fight is incredible. I’m not saying I’ve ever fought to get the rush, but if drugs could me feel like that I’d be a junkie.:eek: