The Five Minute Time Limit to Edit Posts

[Charlie_Wayne]

I understand why you impose a time limit for people to edit posts and five minutes seems fair to me. But I do have a problem with the way it is done and I do understand that it is the people who created the s/w who implemented the way in which it is done and it’s beyond your control. But still, I would hope you could forward my concerns to them - providing you agree.

Here is my concern:

I had just made a post and was close to the 5 minute limit. I wanted to make a small change and so I tried. But when I tried to save the changed version, I got that terrible message saying my five minutes had elapsed and I couldn’t make any changes. Then, just to test something, I tried to edit my post again and the s/w let me open the post as if I was about to make the change.

That struck me as very unfair for the following reasons:

If I was a newcomer to this board, I wouldn’t know about the 5 minute time limit and I could easily spend a lot of time making changes to my post and then when I hit the “Save” button, I would be told that I was out of luck. I might well not know that I should save the changed version to my notepad and then enter the changes in a new post as best I could.

Even if I wasn’t a newcomer, I might still not be aware of the way this 5 minute limit worked and I could well spend a fair bit of time making changes and then losing all that work.

Finally, even if I was aware of the 5 minute limit, it is still very easy to lose a considerable amount of time and work making changes to a post and then losing those changes.

I know that none of this is the fault of anyone at TSD. In fact, any time I make a new post, I now always write that post into my editor first and only when I’m satisfied with it, then I will copy it and paste it into the TSD editor. That way, if I should lose the post for any reason in the board software, I can always just get it from my editor and paste it back into the TSD editor. Anyone following that procedure almost never loses a post due to several reasons why all of us have lost new posts we are trying to make when we enter them directly into the SDP editor.

In fact, I’d like to make a suggestion for newcomers that they are told to always make new posts into their editor or word processor and then - and only then - when they are satisfied with their post, that is when they can copy it and paste it into the TSD board editor.

Thank you.
All of this would be so easy to avoid and I would think it would be rather easy to make a sensible change to the s/w. If the five minute limit has been exceeded when someone tries to first make a change to a post and hits the “Edit” button, **that would be the time **to tell them that they have exceeded the time limit - **not **after they have spent all that time making the changes and then the try to his the “Save” button.

[Dewey_Finn]

@Charlie_Wayne

In fact, I’d like to make a suggestion for newcomers that they are told to always make new posts into their editor or word processor and then - and only then - when they are satisfied with their post, that is when they can copy it and paste it into the TSD board editor.

How do you think newcomers should be told to make new posts into their editor or word processor? Perhaps the suggestion could be added to the FAQ at the top of About This Message Board. Except the FAQ already informs people about the five-minute edit window and you didn’t think that newcomers would ba aware of that.

[Canadjun]

@Charlie_Wayne

All of this would be so easy to avoid and I would think it would be rather easy to make a sensible change to the s/w. If the five minute limit has been exceeded when someone tries to first make a change to a post and hits the “Edit” button, **that would be the time **to tell them that they have exceeded the time limit - **not **after they have spent all that time making the changes and then the try to his the “Save” button.

That would allow somebody to circumvent the 5 minute limit, albeit only once per post (I can’t think of a method for more than once, but it wouldn’t surprise me). Enter the post; click “Edit” before the 5 minutes are up but don’t close the edit window. Goof around in another copy of SDMB until you want to make changes to your post; make those changes and save them. Since the initial “Edit” happened in time the changes would go through if that was where the time was checked.

[Charlie_Wayne]

I recall one of the mods making a method very clear.

She said, make your post and use “Preview” as much as you like. The five minute clock will not start until you hit “Post” the first time.

So, someone could spend an hour making a post and revising it using “Preview” before they hit “Post”.

So, the mods know about this procedure since they have recommended people use it. It is an excellent procedure to use and I think everyone who wants to enter their posts into the TSD editor should definitely use that procedure.

Unless of course they are aware that it’s better to write posts into your own editor or word processor and then, when you are satisfied, to copy it over into the TSD editor.

But I’m disappointed that neither of you mention this procedure that seems kind of “unfortunate” to me - which is even when the five minute clock has expired, you can still hit “Edit” and the board software will permit you to spend time editing your post. But then, when you hit “Save” it will tell you the time is up.

Seems much kinder and more convenient to me to tell people right away the time limit has expired. Why let people begin the edit process if their time limit has expired? That just seems cruel to me - or at least “inefficient” is probably a better word.

[John_Mace]

Learn to say “missed the edits window”.

[Canadjun]

Refresh your screen and watch what happens under those circumstances.

[Senegoid]

@Charlie_Wayne

All of this would be so easy to avoid and I would think it would be rather easy to make a sensible change to the s/w. If the five minute limit has been exceeded when someone tries to first make a change to a post and hits the “Edit” button, **that would be the time **to tell them that they have exceeded the time limit - **not **after they have spent all that time making the changes and then the try to his the “Save” button.

(Bold in original, but if it wasn’t, I’d be adding it here.)

As far as I’ve ever experienced, that IS how it works. If I make a post and then try to edit it >5 minutes later, I get the message about time limit exceeded as soon as I click the Edit button.

But if I click the Edit button in time, and get the edit window, but by the time I edit my encyclopedic opus and click Save the original 5 minutes is up, then the changes are wasted. (Is this what OP is trying to say?)

Here’s what’s really needed: During the time that the Edit window is open, there should be a live count-down timer visible somewhere, showing you continually how much time you have left. For users who have JavaScript enabled (that is, most of you) that is entirely a doable thing, if only the vBulletin software, you know, actually did that. For those Luddites (like me) who keep JavaScript disabled, that won’t work.

ETA: Question for those technically knowledgeable about vBulletin: Is it, in fact, possible to have a add-on script to do this? I’m thinking of an add-on to vBulletin on the server side that would add the necessary JavaScript to pages sent to the user – NOT something hokey thing where the user needs to install some client-side greasemalarkey script.

[Charlie_Wayne]

@Senegoid

(Bold in original, but if it wasn’t, I’d be adding it here.)

As far as I’ve ever experienced, that IS how it works. If I make a post and then try to edit it >5 minutes later, I get the message about time limit exceeded as soon as I click the Edit button.

But if I click the Edit button in time, and get the edit window, but by the time I edit my encyclopedic opus and click Save the original 5 minutes is up, then the changes are wasted. (Is this what OP is trying to say?)

Here’s what’s really needed: During the time that the Edit window is open, there should be a live count-down timer visible somewhere, showing you continually how much time you have left. For users who have JavaScript enabled (that is, most of you) that is entirely a doable thing, if only the vBulletin software, you know, actually did that. For those Luddites (like me) who keep JavaScript disabled, that won’t work.

ETA: Question for those technically knowledgeable about vBulletin: Is it, in fact, possible to have a add-on script to do this? I’m thinking of an add-on to vBulletin on the server side that would add the necessary JavaScript to pages sent to the user – NOT something hokey thing where the user needs to install some client-side greasemalarkey script.

The countdown window is a great idea.

I have seen that it usually works in the way you say. But today, a few seconds after it told me I missed the 5 minute limit, I tried to edit the post again and it permitted me to do that. Even though the 5 minute limit was exceeded.

Maybe it just works that way for a brief time after the limit is exceeded?

[Telemark]

@Charlie_Wayne

The countdown window is a great idea.

Unless it’s already in vBulletin (and I don’t think it is) this isn’t going to happen.

I have seen that it usually works in the way you say. But today, a few seconds after it told me I missed the 5 minute limit, I tried to edit the post again and it permitted me to do that. Even though the 5 minute limit was exceeded.

Maybe it just works that way for a brief time after the limit is exceeded?

If the edit button is already rendered on the screen it’s not going to disappear once the time limit is exceeded. It’s possible to do that with software, but not with vBulletin. So if you click on the button, you’ll likely get an edit window whether the system is prepared to accept it or not. When you entered the edit screen after the 5 minute window expired were you able to submit it? I don’t think it would work.

I’ll try it on this post.

[Telemark]

Just as I thought, as long as the button remains it will take you to the edit window. Once it’s been rendered to the screen the edit function will remain. But it won’t let you submit that edit once you’ve passed the 5 minute mark. There’s not much anyone can do about that, it’s a limitation of the software.

[Joey_P]

Here’s a trick that I don’t think many people know. If you edit your post, click Save Changes and get that window popping up to tell you it’s too late you can highlight your text, right click and select ‘copy’ under the window before clicking ‘cancel changes’ (or whatever you’re forced to click) to dismiss the window and having all your new text disappear.

That’s really useful for when you Edited To Add another paragraph or something like that. Then you can just paste it into another post.

[Senegoid]

@Telemark

Just as I thought, as long as the button remains it will take you to the edit window. Once it’s been rendered to the screen the edit function will remain. But it won’t let you submit that edit once you’ve passed the 5 minute mark. There’s not much anyone can do about that, it’s a limitation of the software.

NOT in my experience. OP himself agrees (well, usually), just a few posts up. Yes, the Edit button stays on the screen indefinitely long if you don’t refresh, but when you click on it, you immediately get the Expired message. Well, I do. Maybe you don’t.

OP’s occasional mis-adventure seems to be due to falling into a transient quasi-temporal momentary chronosynclastic infundibulum of sorts, once in a while, in which the arrow of quantum time transmission gets briefly infundibulated. So yes, if he clicks at just the wrong instant, I suppose that could happen.

But if it happens to you all the time, you probably need your clock taken to the cleaners.

[Senegoid]

@Joey_P

Here’s a trick that I don’t think many people know. If you edit your post, click Save Changes and get that window popping up to tell you it’s too late you can highlight your text, right click and select ‘copy’ under the window before clicking ‘cancel changes’ (or whatever you’re forced to click) to dismiss the window and having all your new text disappear.

That’s really useful for when you Edited To Add another paragraph or something like that. Then you can just paste it into another post.

Yes, but. . . I think you either didn’t quite say this right or you left out a step or something. When that happens to me, I find I need to click on the “Back” button (or the Backspace key or Alt-LeftArrow or whatever the key is for your browser). This gets me back to the edit window. Then I can copy it to my clipboard.

Likewise, if I click Save or Submit Reply and suddenly get admonished that I need to log in, this same trick works. (Duh. How did I ever get to that edit window in the first place if I hadn’t already logged in? Stupid vBulletin!)

[Senegoid]

@Senegoid

NOT in my experience. OP himself agrees (well, usually), just a few posts up. Yes, the Edit button stays on the screen indefinitely long if you don’t refresh, but when you click on it, you immediately get the Expired message. Well, I do. Maybe you don’t.

I wonder if this behavior is different depending on whether you have JavaScript enabled. Most users have JS enabled. I don’t. A lot of board behaviors work differently for me. And mostly for the better, too, IMHO. (ETA: For one thing: NO advertising! Even without any ad-blockers!)

The bad news about disabling JS (if you consider this bad news) is that ALL the edit tool icons at the top of the edit window are disabled as are all the smiley icons at the right. In order to use any of them, I have to manually type in the required BBcode tags myself.

Ancient troglodyte Luddite FORTRAN programmer and troff(1) user that I am, this suits me just fine. You decadent degenerate young-uns don’t get that.

[Joey_P]

@Senegoid

Yes, but. . . I think you either didn’t quite say this right or you left out a step or something. When that happens to me, I find I need to click on the “Back” button (or the Backspace key or Alt-LeftArrow or whatever the key is for your browser). This gets me back to the edit window. Then I can copy it to my clipboard.

Likewise, if I click Save or Submit Reply and suddenly get admonished that I need to log in, this same trick works. (Duh. How did I ever get to that edit window in the first place if I hadn’t already logged in? Stupid vBulletin!)

Using the back button is one of those ‘cross my fingers and hope my post is still there’ things. This always works.

Here’s what I’m talking about (I had to wait for the edit window to expire to get a screen shot).

ETA, obviously, I should have had my mouse on copy, not paste, but I think I still shows what I meant.

[Senegoid]

@Joey_P

Using the back button is one of those ‘cross my fingers and hope my post is still there’ things. This always works.

Here’s what I’m talking about (I had to wait for the edit window to expire to get a screen shot).

ETA, obviously, I should have had my mouse on copy, not paste, but I think I still shows what I meant.

Unfortunately (for someone, I guess), I can’t see your picture. JavaScript disabled, remember. Photobucket no worky without JavaScript. My 'tude about that: Fuck photobucket. A lot of sites won’t show pictures without JS, but a lot of others will. Therefore, the sites that won’t are just fucked up as far as I’m concerned. There are other places pictures could be posted that I could see them even without JS. Okay, [/rant].

So I’m still not picturing your process. You are somehow able to copy the text from your edit window while the “Expired” message is on-screen? Okay, I’ve have to try that myself someday RSN, with and without JS, and see for myself how it plays.

Anyway, I’ve never had it fail that I could go back and get back to my edit screen. Nonetheless, I sometimes copy my post to the clipboard just before clicking on “Submit” or “Save”, just in case, when I happen to think of it. The moral of the story seems to be: If you’re going to post on SDMB, you gotta think. (shudder)

[Joey_P]

Yes, next time you post something, don’t do anything else in that window for 6+ minutes. Then come back to it hit the edit button, type some stuff and hit save. Then while the ‘expired’ message is up, highlight the text with your mouse and right click on as if that pop up window wasn’t there.

[Senegoid]

@Joey_P

Yes, next time you post something, don’t do anything else in that window for 6+ minutes. Then come back to it hit the edit button, type some stuff and hit save. Then while the ‘expired’ message is up, highlight the text with your mouse and right click on as if that pop up window wasn’t there.

Okay, I’m going to do some expermanents, with and without JS enabled, so give me some time . . .

And just for you, I enabled JS in order to see your screen shot. It’s quite different from what I see. And the behavior of your screen is clearly something I’m not familiar with: It appears that you can get into your edit window in order to copy some of it to your clipboard, even while another message window is open on top of it. Okay, I’m not sure if that’s totally unfamiliar to me, but it’s definitely odd. Usually, if you click on a background window, that window comes completely to the foreground, hiding any other window that was formerly on top of it. I can imagine (maybe) that a JS-enabled page could change that behavior.

Anyway, lemme do some playing around. Now me am intrigued.

(And BTW, I am using a very old version of Firefox with a very old version of Gnome with a very old version of Linux on a very old CPU box.)

[Senegoid]

Okay, here’s my Experiment #1:
– JavaScript DISABLED.
– Wait >5 minutes then click on Edit button.

Result: I get the Edit Time Expired message immediately upon clicking the Edit button in the original post. The actual edit window (where I would have typed my edit) never appears at all! To get back to the original (un-edited) post, I MUST use my browser’s Back function. Notice how totally different this is than the screen shot posted by Joey P!

Screen shot here (and you don’t need JavaScript enabled to see it either).

Next experiment coming up: I’m going to do the same thing with JavaScript enabled and see for myself how different it is!

[Joey_P]

You’re right, that is very different looking. I don’t know anything about Linux, but I’ve been using this trick probably since they gave us the edit window (courtesy of someone else here that pointed it out). So, unless you’re on a version of FF more than a decade old, that probably isn’t playing into it.