The Friday Night Wine Thread - 4/21

Cafe Society
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We haven’t had one of these threads in a while. Tonight, I’ve got a wine and a topic for discussion.

The Wine
2002 Ridge Geyserville Zinfandel - As I’ve said before, I love Ridge Zin. This one is supposedly their top label. At about $30, that’s above where I usually go for Zinfandel. Today, with a coupon and a sale price, I got it for $18, which upon tasting, is about right for this bottle. If memory serves, '02 was a pretty good year for Sonoma, from which this wine hails. That being said, I expected more.

It’s got the jammy fruitiness I like in a zin, and the spicyness isn’t too abrasive. It really is a nice wine. I guess for the reputation and the money though, I was expecting something a little more grandiose.

The Topic
There was a story in Thursday’s Wall Street Journal about Bordeaux producers starting to include the names of their grapes on the label. Traditionally this was only allowed if a wine was made 100% from a particular grape. Some producers are now labelling their wine Cabernet-Merlot or something similar. The rationale behind the change of course is to appeal to the growing American wine market, where most people make their wine choice based on varietal.

On the surface, I suppose this isn’t a major issue for me. I certainly hope though that in their attempt to curry favor with American consumers, that Bordeaux producers won’t eventually start changing the character of their wines in an attempt to replicate the big fruit-forward style of California Cabernets and Merlots that most American consumers tend to favor. Don’t get me wrong…I likes me some California Cab just fine. However, I really likes me the comlexity of a really nice Bordeaux.

Any French wine lovers care to weigh in with an opinion? Silenus, I know you’re dying to jump in on this one. :slight_smile:

Sorry, no link to the story. WSJ requires a subscription anyway.

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i agree. i find zinfandel very much to my taste. tonight it is coppola’s zin, a favorite of mine

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Well, tonight is a beer night for me (Mactarnahan’s IPA, to be exact) but I’ll be interested to see this thread develop. Zin is one of my favorites, unfortunately. Unfortunately in that the wife doesn’t really like it, so we usually drink something else. But she’s on a business trip, so maybe tomorrow night I’ll crack a bottle to go with the stuffed shells she left me in the freezer. Something big…so it’s either a Zin or the 2002 Fess Parker Reserve Syrah.

As for the French labeling change…I can see the point. They want to grab a bigger share of our market, and we have all been trained to look to the grape first, terrior second. It’s also kind of a snob thing going on, like people who drink single-malts but wouldn’t touch a blend (guilty!) The top growths of France are all blends, and they are transcendent. Well out of my price range, but glorious. Everything else from France is over-priced, over-hyped and over-sold. :stuck_out_tongue:

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'03 Cline Syrah (Sonoma, CA). $9 and a damn fine quaff for it. “The deep purple color explodes…something blueberry…black jammy fruit…black pepper” (this from the back label). Goes great with ribeye, I do know that.

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So it’s to the pit then, is it? :slight_smile:

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The Wine

2001 Atalon Cabernet Sauvignon (Napa Valley - specifically Oakville.)

Eh, not bad, not out of this world.
Nice deep plum color with fairly strong concentration and good clarity.
It smells like it’s slightly infected with brett, but it’s not an overwhelming aroma. A little more than I care for, but not undrinkable. It was just a little harder to get to the fruit aromas.
Once I did though, I get cherry, plum, and maybe blackberry. Definite earthy flavors, sort of like loose dust or soil, and tiny hints of toast and tobacco.

At 13.7% alcohol, it’s nicely balanced, with a fairly long finish. I’m about 2 minutes into my last sip and the mineral/soil taste is still present in my mouth.

Overall a fairly decent wine.

The Topic

I read this yesterday as well and was mostly unphased by it. It’s good for some consumers, won’t make much of a difference for others.

Link to the story - No subscription required.

I think a lot of California Cabs are more fruit foward because of the warmer and more temperate growing climate, and the freedom in winemaking techniques.

Any French AOC wines are still bound by French winemaking laws, and the cooler growing region limits their ability to get not only higher alcohol levels, but more fruit flavors out of their grapes.

Also, this change doesn’t require French producers to disclose varietals, it allows them to, something that specifically was not allowed before, sort of. Before this change, only wines containg 100% of a varietal could list it as say, Cabernet Sauvignon. Some did, some didn’t. Now French winemakers can (if they choose to) label a wine Cabernet Sauvignon with 85% of the grapes coming from that varietal and the rest obviously coming from the other 5 varietals permitted there (Merlot, Petit Verdot, Malbec, Cab Franc, and Carmenere.) Big deal. If it was a red wine from Medoc, I’d assume it’s mostly Cab Sauv anyway. (And as a reference point - it’s 75% in the US, except Oregon, where it’s 95%, to label a wine with a specific grape varietal, and we don’t have a 5 limit varietal for the remainder of the blend like France, we can throw the kitchen sink in there pretty much.)

Overall I think you’ll still find what you’d expect to in Bordeaux - Merlot based blends on the Right Bank, and Cab Sauv based blends on the Left Bank. Lower alcohols, less oakiness, higher acidity, etc.

Anyway, I rambled too much sorry. I just like to talk wine lately.

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And yet again, I hit submit too quickly. Will I ever learn?


Now French winemakers can....we don't have a 5 limit varietal for the remainder of the blend like France

You can replace French/France with Bordeaux.

And now back to my mediocre California Cab.

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This part of story that left me a little confused. If the producers are relying on this newer ECC regulation to label their wines, will they still be able to use their specific appellation? Isn’t the AOC still the only authority that allows a producer to put a specific appellation (such as Pauillac) on the label?

Maybe this is a moot point. Given that so far only lower cost producers, presumably from backwater appellations, are the ones using the new regs, maybe they’re fine simply having “Bordeaux” on their label.

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They’re relying on it to label their wines with varietals. So yes, they still need to adhere to AOC requirements for authenticity of place.

Yes.

The AOC dicates:

Geographic boundaries
Grape varietals
Time of harvest and yields
Alc levels
Viticultural methods
Vinification techniques
And the overall quality of the finished product (Which basically means if the AOC tasting panel doesn’t like the flavor of a wine that meets all of the AOC criteria above, they can deem it not applicable for AOC designation.) :eek:
I mentioned in another thread that France probably has the strictest winemaking laws in the world. You can see why one would be inclined to believe that.

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I thought AOC didn’t allow for grape names on the label though.

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Shit. Now I’m confused. And the more wine I drink, thw worse it’ll get. :wink:
I agree the article is sketchy at best, and it doesn’t link to a definite ruling or statement by any official organizations, and I’m by no means an expert on French wine laws, so take this with a grain of salt.

But what I’m getting from the story is that the AOC only allowed varietals on the label if the wine was made from 100% of that grape. The change in the law is lowering that to 85%, and the AOC is willing to accept and recognize this change. Along with that, they are allowing varietal blend percentages listed.

This is something I’ve been reading about possibly coming down the French wine pipeline for a couple of years now, so it’s not a surprise to see an article stating it’s come to pass.

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I went out to a nice Argentinian resto in my neighbourhood tonight. Third time I’ve been there in the past month, actually – they make a great rack of lamb, but tonight I went with a deconstructed seafood risotto. Had a 2003 Pinot Grigio from Kris, Northern Italy. Very nice, very affordable.

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I haven’t read the whole thread, & I don’t like to post when I’ve been drinking, but I’m drinking Berringers White Zinfandel 2004 at the moment. I’ve always liked it. My taste is in my mouth?

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Yes and no. The basic rule is: If you like it, it isn’t wrong. That said, white zin is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord! :smiley:

Screw my opinions. Drink what you like. But I might recommend a nice Pinot Grigio, or maybe a Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc. There is a winery in New Zealand whose name escapes for the moment that makes the most flinty, austere SB I have ever tasted. Wonderful stuff.

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After some more wine and some more thought, I decided to put together a serious retort to this.

The first growth Bordeauxs are great and everything else is over-priced and over-hyped? When word got out on the 2000 Bordeaux vintage, prices on first growths skyrocketed to around $300/bottle. If you want a 2000 Latour today, it’ll run you around $500. Now, I’ve never had a 100 point wine and probably never will, but $500 for a bottle? Is this price based on anything other than hype?

On the flip side, I’ve bought plenty of excellent Bordeaux over the last few years from such non-prestigious appellations as Listrac, Bordeaux Superior and Premieres Cotes de Bordeaux. I’ve paid from between $9-$17/bottle for these. They’re certainly not 100 point bottles (whatever that means), but they’re pretty damn good, and the quality is as good or better from what I’d expect from similarly priced California Cabs and Meritage.

Of France’s prestigious wine regions, I think Bordeax is the place to look for values. You certainly don’t find any deals in Burgundy, and you don’t find too many in the Rhone either. I’m particularly a fan of Rhone wines, especially Chateauneuf du Pape. I guess I’d be a little happier if I didn’t have to pay $25+ to get a really good bottle of CdP, but these are unique wines. No one else makes anything similar, so I can live with paying a premium.

I realize your remark may not have been 100% serious, but all I am saying, is give France a chance.

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Some slight hyperbole in my comment, but I stand by the general principle. Life is too short to drink French wine. Sure, the upper reaches of the top growths are inflated. But that is still wine that surpasses my ability to appreciate it. Whereas the New World has embraced the bold, the strong, the varietal. There is so much good wine being produced other places that I don’t have time for the French.

Tastes differ, which is what makes this sort of argument so much fun. :stuck_out_tongue:

Truth be told, I could happily exist for the rest of my days with a couple of Super-Tuscans

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Funny. My only slightly hyperbole filled wine rant goes as follows.

I’ve yet to find an Italian wine that wasn’t mind-numbingly bland and who’s sole purpose in this world wasn’t to be chugged by the liter in an attempt to wash down starchy meals. In fairness I suppose Italian wine does have a secondary purpose…to be used on dinner guests that can’t tell the difference between good wine and an ill-fitting pair of shoes.

But that’s just my opinion. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Which is why we find a middle ground and both proclaim our love for Zins. :smiley:

I found an Old Vine Primitivo from the Central Coast region of California a few years ago that was the best I’ve ever tasted in a Zin. I wish I could remember the winery. Ah, well. I’ll just have to drink them all until I find it again.

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Amen to that. I find it funny that the U.S. is the only country that produces any Zinfandel. Zin is accessible, affordable and just plain yummy. The Europeans are pretty entrenched in their practices, but there’s no reason South America and Australia couldn’t be making Zin.

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I’m a hug Zin fan as well. There was just a Zinfandel tasting in SF that I was unable to attend this year, but I’d really like to try and make it next year. ZAP

There are some great local producers in this area, it’s usually what my husband and I end up purchasing when we go winery hopping. And what I ended up finishing last night with after we polished of the Cab Sauv. - Roshambo’s (my favorite local winery) 2002 ‘The Reverend’ - deep ruby color and lots of red fruit with just a little peppery zing. It’s not a fabulous wine, it’s just a fun, tasty, approachable one. One of our favorite every day wines.

And Italy produces Zin with some success, they just call it Primitivo.