The Gilded Age on HBO Max (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
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21

Miss Scott’s wardrobe makes little sense. The fashion of never wearing the same ensemble twice was a privilege of the .01%, but since I started noticing in episode 2, Miss Scott has worn at least 4 completely unique outfits. (Imagine the trunks from Pennsylvania!) And these are the superstructured styles of the day which required at least one servant to help dress the wearer.

I think iirc that she didn’t have a lot of clothes and Baranski told her to get more on her dime, lots of “bright colors” and not to continue to wear her mourning outfits.

But I have no knowledge as to the rest of your points and presume you’re correct in your analysis.

I love the show. I love a fancy dress, period soap opera. I got really annoyed and frustrated with DA as it wound down, to the point I never even saw the movie. I hope HBO can rein in some of JF’s … lesser choices… better than PBS could. (Or whatever the producing network was). I didn’t even know it was JF when I started watching it. I was in it for Baranski and Coons and pretty dresses in a setting we don’t often see.

If I had to nitpick, I don’t like that it’s doing too many of the same tropes as DA. The maid and the Master of the house, the shy kitchen maid. But at least they’re not doing it exactly the same, even if these tropes were also done in Gosford Park in yet a third way.

22

I think you’re being modest in describing your knowledge as limited.

23

My relevant knowledge is limited to a couple specific rabbitholes of esoterica. You should hear me bitch about horticultural cultivars that weren’t on the market at the time of a movie’s setting, or the vagaries of floral arrangement styles of a given period. Or whether a sweater or piece of lace is made by hand or machine. Irrelevant to the vast majority of movies or series. Or, and this will get me at my noisiest, whether animals are from the old world or the new. :sweat_smile:

24

That was an instruction to her niece; Miss Scott is her secretary.

25

But we learned that Miss Scott’s family is relatively prosperous, so perhaps she can afford all of those clothes?

26

Relatively prosperous is not 1%. It was not at all unusual for a woman to own one dress at a time; it was quite an investment. On the level of “anything is possible,” if course, we may learn more about how wealthy her parents are. But so far all we know is that her father owns a pharmacy. It seems unlikely, to me, that such a position would allow for a daughter with a wardrobe rivalling the wife of a railroad magnate. Especially when her father has shown that he does not support his daughter’s lifestyle.

27

gdi. It’s going to take me a long time to get the names down.

28

How is that different from descendants of Italian or Irish immigrants railing against immigration today? All it takes is a generation or two to assume that you deserve whatever privileges you were born with.

29

We just started watching and like it.
I thought it was interesting how they inverted some traditional ways of thinking, like how Agnes says that Ada “got to be a spinster” and truly meant it. Agnes had to suffer a bad husband for their financial benefit while Ada didn’t have to suffer in that way and was grateful to Agnes for that. I loved how it spun the word spinster, which is usually derogatory, into something desirable – and it made sense.

30

Peggy’s wardrobe was a subtle clue to the audience that she was well off. Seeing as how she’s an only child and her father’s sole heiress it’s believable he gave her a lavish dress allowance before she cut ties. Note she had her mother bring her clothes after she arrived in NYC. What’s really odd that Marion didn’t pick up on the quality Peggy’s wardrobe. Peggy’s the most interesting character so far and I’d love to see more of her family.

31

I like it quite a lot and disagree that the characters are one-dimensional. In particular the Russells , who are the heart of the show so far, are well-rounded characters. They are manipulative and ruthless and yet you sort of root for them against the insufferable snobs they contend with. At the same time the snobs like Agnes have their good side too.

I think the New York old money/new money battle gives the show a tighter focus than Downton Abbey. And fundamentally I think the US of the 1880s was a more interesting society than the Britain of the 1900s.

I have been on a bit of a Wiki rabbit-hole reading about the real-world characters and man is there some juicy material some of which will no doubt be used in future episodes and seasons. Please stop reading if you want to avoid possible spoilers.

Mrs Russel appears to be based on Alva Vanderbilt. She is famous for a legendary ball in 1883 which I suspect will be the climax of season 1. From Wiki:

Determined to bring the Vanderbilt family the social status that she felt they deserved, Vanderbilt christened the Fifth Avenue chateau—placed between 5th avenue and 52nd Street, occupying a city block—in March 1883 with a masquerade ball for 1000 guests,[7] costing a reported $3 million. “The New York World speculated that Alva’s party cost [at least] more than a quarter of a million dollars, more than $5 million in today’s dollars” wrote Roark et al.[7]

An oft-repeated story tells that Vanderbilt felt she had been snubbed by Caroline Astor, queen of “The 400” elite of New York society, so she purposely neglected to send an invitation to her housewarming ball, a dress ball of about 750 guests,[7] to Astor’s popular daughter, Carrie. Supposedly, this forced Astor to come calling, in order to secure an invitation to the ball for her daughter.[8]

Astor did in fact pay a social call on Vanderbilt and she and her daughter were guests at the ball, effectively giving the Vanderbilt family society’s official acceptance (Vanderbilt and Astor were observed at the ball in animated conversation). “We have no right to exclude those whom this great country has brought forward,” Astor conceded, “The time has come for the Vanderbilts.”[7]

Triumphant, Alva dressed as a venetian noble to the ball, but her sister-in-law Alice outdid her, dressing as a then brand-new invention: the electric light.[7] Her white satin evening dress, aptly named the Electric Light dress, was studded with diamonds and caused a stir in the press.[7]

32

I’m a big Downton Abbey fan, for all its shortcomings, and my family and I have been enjoying The Gilded Age too, despite its occasional eyeroll-inducing moments. Mr. Russell is the pretty much the nicest ruthless railroad baron imaginable, and if his wife is a bit too gratingly ambitious, we can certainly understand why (the actor and actress were earlier both very good in The Plot Against America and Fargo, respectively). The snooty widow and her slightly-dotty younger sister are always entertaining, and their niece (Meryl Streep’s daughter, I recently learned) is spunky, beautiful and charming, as is her friend the aspiring writer. I like the rest of the cast too, all in all, and the costumes, sets, opening credits and music are all quite good.

I just hope a young Theodore Roosevelt puts in an appearance at some point…

33

As I watch the show, I wonder who are the real-life analogs to the fictional characters. For example, I think when we see the Russells, we’re supposed to think of the Vanderbilts. Cornelius Vanderbilt, for instance, built Grand Central Terminal and George Russell proposes to build Union Central Station. And when Bertha talked about visiting Newport, Rhode Island, I remembered seeing the enormous “cottage” built by the Vanderbilts there.

But who is the real-life analog to Mrs Chamberlain, the scandalous woman with an awesome art collection?

And we met Stanford White, and we know how his story ends, so I wonder if that’s going to be touched on here.

34

The real-life analogs are complicated. Mrs Russell is clearly based on Alva Vanderbilt but her husband William Vanderbilt was an heir unlike Mr Russell who is clearly a self-made railroad tycoon perhaps modeled on Jay Gould (though IIRC he was mentioned in the show).

Possible future episode spoilers Incidentally the real Alva divorced Vanderbilt which would make for an interesting arc if they follow it. She also pretty much forced her daughter, Consuelo, to marry the Duke of Marlborough (incidentally Winston Churchill’s cousin); I suspect some similar plotline is likely.

I loved the building lighting scene; it captured the child-like delight which the people of the time must have felt for something we take completely for granted. I wonder if there really was a countdown as portrayed.

35

Supposedly the original plan for the show would have shown the romance between Robert and Cora Crawley, as he was a titled Englishman but one whose estate needed money and her father had lots of that. I think I read that’s no longer going to occur, but perhaps the Russell’s daughter or another character will be married off to another noble.

36

It is a decent show- not great but still fun and watchable.

But those bustles!

37

Agnes’s quips are so funny. Ada had a good one in this last episode and I forget what it was exactly but it was in response to Agnes getting worked up about her son and Ada said something like “Your agitation is making you indelicate.” As in Agnes was nearly swearing. They are very funny together!

38

I just wanted to chime in to say that so far I’ve only seen the extended-length first episode, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and plan on watching more later tonight. It may or may not not be up to the standards of Downton Abbey, but it’s still fine entertainment and if Julian Fellowes can keep up his magic it promises to be a great series, from my perspective as someone who’s just started watching. I heard that it’s been renewed for another season. I sent some info about it to a friend who had not heard of it but was a big Downton Abbey fan, who reports back that she’s greatly enjoying it.

39

Yes, it has indeed been renewed:

40

I’m in the weird position of enjoying the show even while thinking much of it doesn’t work very well — Marian, the ostensible protagonist, is one of the least interesting (and most poorly acted) roles; the downstairs plots are perfunctory; and the overall dynamics are very evidently recycled from Downton Abbey. And yet, Christine Baranski and Carrie Coon, dressed to the nines and dispensing withering put-downs to all and sundry? (Did you all see Carrie Coon on The Sinner? She was amazing.) I’ll have a double helping of that. Peggy Scott’s arc is also interesting and doesn’t feel like something I saw done better on Downton. And Gladys Russell is my dark horse, the Lady Edith of Gilded Age — oppressed, dismissed, and primed to (hopefully) act out in a spectacular way.