The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other)

When I first started flying IFR years ago, I was dismayed by the paper maps and charts. It seemed like an absurd system, carrying around these big Jepp binders, unfolding huge onion-skin enroute maps. I remember doing my first right-seat trips in Navajos, trying to find a waypoint on an enroute map that covered up the entire panel.

Some years later when I was instructing one of my regular clients put an iPad in my hands for the first time. He was an early adopter and had the first aviation apps. I was skeptical at first, but it took about 20 minutes into our flight for me to realize it was a game-changer. It was the right solution, and one that had been needed for a long time. Finally, I thought - this is how we should be doing this!

The other big change to drag aviation into the modern world would be to update coded weather, NOTAMs and PIREPs. **There’s no reason on this Earth why weather should be disseminated in the form of a puzzle that needs to be solved. **

We’re not in the 1930s and using teleprinters. We are perfectly capable of providing plain language information to pilots. In fact, it took me a few tries just now to find a raw TAF because most web sites (besides “official” FAA products) automatically translate them. No need to get rid of the codes, which I’m told ICAO won’t allow, just permit some form of translation into plain language that is officially usable by pilots.

As you get older you’ll *really *appreciate the glow in the dark and the zoom features.

It still remains the case that even on a 10" screen it can be hard to zoom in enough to see what you need and also be zoomed out enough to have any context. The search feature is a happy thing; instead of scanning a couple-few square feet of paper trying to find XYZ or J123 or BLURF, just key it into the search box. But don’t type BLRFF by mistake or you’re suddenly on another continent.

Our weather app WSI Optima has decode options for most of that stuff. And color coded qualitative indicators. I’ve been reading METARS & TAFs for so long now I don’t find the decode to be easier. It takes all kinds.

(Bold-face in original.)

ISTM we had a discussion of this already, at much greater length, earlier this year or last year — either earlier in this thread or (maybe) in a separate thread. The most predominant argument for keeping the current incomprehensible system was simply inertia on an international scale. There was also the adjunct argument (rather silly, I thought) that using full-word plain language, for an international standard, would be too English-centric, as if the abbreviations weren’t already mostly derived from English words (with a smattering of French thrown in). Then, too, there was also this type of argument:

(Bold-face added this time.)

No doubt, introducing any new coding standard, even full-word plain Engly∫he, to become fully entrenched, requires the entire current generation to pass away and a new generation to take their place.

I’m sure we have - it’s one of my pet issues.

When I was instructing I felt like I should apologize to students for their having to learn this nonsense. That and the weather charts that for most practical purposes no longer existed in the form the FAA tested them on.

I can read a METAR pretty well too, up until the weather gets a bit exotic and I’m reminded that we live in a world where the abbreviation for “smoke” is FU. And that the codes and formatting are similar, but different in TAFs and PIREPs. It’s occurred to me that if you wanted to design a system that is purposely opaque and confusing, it would look a lot like what we have now. And it’s just a waste of time for new flight students given that it’s no longer necessary.

I’ve also wondered how many times somebody got into a bad situation in flight because of misunderstanding the codes. One could say that’s on them (as the FAA certainly would), but I disagree.

It’s definitely not the system the US would come up with on its own if we were starting from scratch today. But it got this way over the decades since WWII as 150 nations slowly converged on one standard.

I’m old enough to have been an airline pilot when the US switched to the international standard METARS and TAFs from the traditional US system which among other massive differences used degrees F. The only thing louder than a 727 was the whining from the soon-to-retire old pilots when that change came in.

I’m old enough to remember the change before that when as a private pilot pre-USAF the US replaced the dedicated special teletype symbols for clear, scattered, broken, overcast, and obscured with the 3-letter codes used since. I’m old enough to have used as a student pilot the system before that where wind directions were indicated by arrows pointing in 8 directions. I’ve gotten live FSS briefings like that at on-airport FSSes.

I remember when ATIS was invented. Not D-ATIS; the VHF audio kind. I never got to fly an LF/MF range but I was tested on them for my private. I saw a real sectional chart from a few years prior that still had a couple of those.

The distance we’ve come is amazing. And now that it’s a thoroughly international system, the obstacles to progress are, if anything, greater than they were.

A good weather app can provide so much more info than a pile of TAFs, METARS, SDs, WAs and AFs ever could. Nice graphics that show trends and practical useful info at a glance. The old stuff still exists. And gets tested on. But anyone today who’s flying only that way is, deliberately or inadvertently, doing it the hard way.

Hey, I resemble that! I had some flying lessons, including a full ground school course from a Civil Air Patrol class, when I was a senior in high school, circa 1968/1969! I had to learn all those old TTY symbols. They were perfectly mnemonic and obvious too. I think we should now use emojis for all those. (Funny how what’s old is new again.) (Any yes, I passed the FAA written exam the first time, a feat they all assured me just NEVER happens!)

Even down to the Morse Code on all those VOR stations? (Which themselves will be obsolete soon enough!)

But flying the old way is more fun, n’est-ce pas? I had a flight from Concord (S.F.Bay Area) to Auburn (a bit beyond Sacramento) last week aboard a Beechcraft Sierra (photo), which I discussed in some earlier posts. I was just a back-seat ballast passenger. The plane is largely modern automated electronic computer-controlled stuff. Pretty much all the pilot did was twiddle knobs and buttons on all those computer consoles and the auto-pilot, and talk to ATC. We flew IFR, and the auto-pilot even flies all the IFR procedure patterns. I asked the pilot afterward how much of the flight he actually hand-flew, and he said about 20%. (This was the same flight I mentioned earlier, the one where the engine quit after landing as we were taxiing off the runway.)

Even on the infrequent occasions when I get to try my hand at flying real airplanes with real engines and real throttles and real propellers, I’m in it more for just the recreational flying, and only tangentially for actually traveling anywhere (other than to $100 hamburger joints). Where’s the fun in flying a plane like that?

Different planes for different missions. If I’m going to travel somewhere and go IFR a Cirrus is a great plane - lots of information and automation. But if I’m doing a $100 burger, an old Piper Colt or a taildragger fits that bill. If I had the money, I’d have a traveling plane and fun plane, probably something for aerobatics.

Yeah! Through all my glider connections, and the time I spend hanging around little airports now, I’m getting to know some pilots who invite me out flying with them sometimes.

One of our tow pilots has his own Citabria. Another one has a Christen Eagle, complete with the standard Christen Eagle paint job! A few weeks ago he took one of out glider pilots up for an acro flight and lesson. (The guy came back looking totally dazed.)

One of the student pilots has his own RV-8 that I’m told he commonly takes other members flying in. I’ll be looking forward to that!

The last time I flew a VOR-powered airplane was 1998. Yes, we identified the Morse every time. Though once identified we didn’t listen to it beeping all the time.

To this day I fly every ILS with the Morse up enough to follow along with the “music” from 20-30 miles out through clearing the runway. More than once that has saved our bacon. Some of our jets are smart enough to listen to the Morse and display the decode, or signal an error if the decode doesn’t match what the database says it should be. My flavor of jet isn’t that smart. So we have to do the decode ourselves. Now that we’re flying more and more RNAV approaches even that Morse is slip-slidin’ away. At first it felt weird/wrong to be on final with no beeping in the background. Now it seems kinda nice.

I am young enough that I never had to pass a Morse code listening test. My Dad had to do that for his ATR (the early '60s equivalent of the current ATP).

Through osmosis I learned probably 20 of the 26 letters back in the VOR days. Now it’s down to about 15 I recognize without thinking & I have to read the chart to confirm any of the others.

Exactly. Back when I was a flight engineer (or furloughed flight engineer :(), so getting zero stick time, I partnered in a Twin Comanche. Great for traveling, but not a lot of fun. I occasionally rented a Citabria for the fun flying; low slow sight seeing and the occasional dive bombing or acro or DACT against eagles & buzzards.

Armed with silly money I’d probably have a 2-seat Pitts, Christen, or Extra for fun. Living and working where I do the airline is the way to just cover the miles. Back in the day I found the Citabria actually made a decent XC machine for two people with little luggage. A 500 mile overnight jaunt with your shaving kit and a change of clothes worked just fine. The combo of hourly rental rate, speed, and fuel burn was plenty good enough. The high wing gives good sightseeing even for the backseater.

Yah, the Colt’s a great burger plane. and since ti’s a Tri-Pacer without the back seats it’s got a lot of storage for camping.

I wish they’d change the Sport Class to include this size plane.

I’ve got a fair bit of time in Colts. Flew one with a friend for a while, and later I instructed in them because nobody could find another CFI who knew about them. Great little plane, very honest.

People usually mistake them for a Cessna 150 at first glance. I enjoyed inviting them to look in the cockpit and seeing them try to identify the big handle. They often guessed flap control before realizing the plane had no flaps. These days very few people have seen a Johnson Bar.

The bar was interesting, but created one drawback for that plane - there’s no differential braking. So the Colt’s turning radius was very wide for a plane of that size. I cautioned new owners to be very careful when trying to turn around on a runway because it needed a deceptively large amount of room.

Can YOU fly the RLS (Reindeer Landing System) RNAV into Santa’s Workshop Int’l Airport, North Pole?

RLS landing procedure, including a quiz on the details.

(Note special variations in case Rudolph INOP, and in case 2 or more reindeer INOP.)

See also: Pilot’s and Flight Engineer’s Notes, covering Sleigh I (eight-reindeer power plant) and Sleigh II (nine-reindeer power plant)

This just came in on the club e-mail. (No attribution given.)
*'Twas the night before Christmas and out on the ramp,
Not an airplane was stirring, not even a Champ.

The aircraft were fastened to tiedowns with care,
In hopes that come morning, they all would be there.

When the radio lit up with noise and with chatter,
I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.

A voice clearly heard over static and snow,
Called for clearance to land at the airport below.

He barked his transmission so lively and quick,
I’d have sworn that the call sign he used was “St. Nick”.

I ran to the panel to turn up the lights,
The better to welcome this magical flight.

He called his position, no room for denial,
“St. Nicholas One, turnin’ left onto final.”

And what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a Rutan-built sleigh, with eight Rotax Reindeer!

With vectors to final, down the glideslope he came,
As he passed all the fixes, he called them by name:

“Now Cessna! Now Beechcraft! Now Piper and Stinson!
On Waco! On Fairchild!” What pills was he takin?

While controllers were sittin’, and scratchin’ their head,
They phoned to my office, and I heard it with dread,

The message they left was both urgent and dour:
“When Santa pulls in, have him please call the tower.”

He landed like silk, with the sled runners sparking,
Then I heard “Left at Charlie,” and “Taxi to parking.”

He slowed to a taxi, turned off of three-oh
And stopped on the ramp with a “Ho, ho-ho-ho.”

He stepped out of the sleigh, but before he could talk,
I ran out to meet him with my best set of chocks.

His red helmet and goggles were covered with frost
And his beard was all blackened from Reindeer exhaust.

His breath smelled like peppermint, gone slightly stale,
And he puffed on a pipe, but he didn’t inhale. [Underline in original]

His cheeks were all rosy and jiggled like jelly,
His boots were as black as a cropduster’s belly.

He was chubby and plump, in his suit of bright red,
And he asked me to “fill 'er with hundred low-lead.”

When he dashed in from the snow-covered pump,
I knew he was anxious for drainin’ the sump.

I spoke not a word, but went straight to my work,
And I filled up the sleigh (but I spilled like a jerk).

He came out of the restroom, and sighed in relief,
Then he picked up a phone for a Flight Service brief.

And I thought as he silently scribed in his log,
These reindeer could land in an eighth-mile fog.

He completed his pre-flight, from the front to the rear,
Then he put on his headset, and I heard him yell, “Clear!”

And laying a finger on his push-to-talk,
He called up the tower for clearance and squawk.

“Take taxiway Charlie, the southbound direction,
Turn right three-two-zero at pilot’s discretion.”

He sped down the runway, the best of the best,
“Your traffic’s a Grumman, inbound from the west.”

Then I heard him proclaim, as he climbed thru the night,
“Merry Christmas to all! I have traffic in sight!”*

Now, who ever refers to runway 30 as “three-oh”? :dubious:

An Airbus A380 lands in very strong crosswinds: http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/10/06/plane-makes-crosswind-landing-dusseldorf-llr-orig.cnn

Here’s a dedicated thread from a couple on that very landing: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=838747. With further links.

Reindeer training video.

In the current GQ thread “How Cold Is Too Cold For Modern Electronics?”, engineer_comp_geek mentions:

I’d like to see some discussion of this point in this thread. As mentioned earlier in this thread, and also in a recent thread about tablets, these mobile electronics get used a lot up there in the skies. Similarly, a great many modern aircraft, including smaller unpressurized ones, are full of modern Garmins and other fancy avionics.

Gliders pilots especially (more than other GA pilots?) like to play way up there as high as we can get. I’ve flown up to 16500 over Tahoe. Just two weeks ago (also mentioned in this thread) one of our local pilots flew wave up to 17999 over Watsonville, CA (and more recently, I just noticed, posted a video of that flight). Yes, even gliders have modern avionics built-in, not to mention the smartphone and tablet apps.

How concerned should we be about this? How well will our electron-intensive toys work — both the avionics (which we might hope are somehow designed to work well at high altitude) as well as our phones and tablets (which maybe aren’t)?

Potential issues at high altitude are reduced cooling due to the thinner air causing the device to potentially overheat, and possible structural failures (like delamination) for displays. While it’s not an issue for phones or tablets, laptops with mechanical disk drives have the additional risk of damage to the drive. Many hard drive heads these days float on a cushion of air. At high altitudes / reduced air pressures, the lack of a sufficient air cushion may cause the drive head to scrape against the surface of the drive platter, permanently damaging the drive. Laptops with solid state drives don’t have to worry about this since there is no physical drive head or physical platters, though laptops do potentially have cooling issues due to the reduced air pressure.

Phones and tablets should have a maximum altitude in their specs somewhere. I looked up an iPhone7 for example and it has a max altitude of 10,000 feet listed. The iPad Pro similarly lists a max altitude of 10,000 feet. There are many other tablets and phones out there that are designed for altitudes of 15,000 feet and higher.

As for avionics devices, I looked up a Garmin G600. It has a maximum operating altitude of 35,000 feet. I suspect that sort of range is typical for anything designed for avionics use.

Great info. Thanks.

The snip above got me to thinking and questioning. I initially assumed the interior was sealed off from the outside world and filled with something like dry nitrogen, perhaps even at somewhat greater than sea level pressure so at least the initial leakage would be outwards not inwards.

Not so. This is what I found here Hard disk drive - Wikipedia

So, HDD’s have static ports! :smiley:

And I suppose that the concept of “density altitude” must apply too. Thus, one can fly up to 9,999 feet on a hot day and have a density altitude of much greater than 10,000 feet — a potential problem for even smart phones and tablets, as discussed above, and not just for laptops with HDD’s. So that sounds like possible trouble for GA pilots, with smart phones and tablets so popular in-flight now. I suppose laptops are less often used. They’re a bit awkward.

How much do typical General Aviation pilots fly up there above 10,000 ft.? Don’t a lot of little GA airplanes top out around there anyway?

This is why I wonder if it’s even more of a problem for gliders, since we like to fly as high as we can get, and on any good soaring day, we would routinely get well above 10,000 ft. Are there smart phones and tablets to be had that have service ceilings higher than that?

(ETA: Do all those electrons tend to puff up at lower air pressures? :slight_smile: )