ATIS: When I first started flying, there was no ATIS. We would monitor tower/ground and usually have the numbers before we called. About a year later ATIS started arriving on a dedicated local frequency, usually a VOR. Twenty years ago, it became possible to get ATIS via telephone before you left home. But now???
I was watching a YouTube video of a Citation flight from Westchester to Midway. Before he departed NY airspace, he was looking at the Midway ATIS on a screen. How is this transmitted?
Possibly through ADS-B, or from satellite radio (Sirius XM)
Brian
Could be via ACARS. The ADS-B I’m familiar with doesn’t have that sort of functionality but ACARS does. It’s basically a text messaging system for aircraft and it uses whatever communications systems are available. It will use VHF when in range but it can also use satcomms when over remote areas.
In my most recent airline flying A320s, we used ACARS for weather reports (TAF, METAR, ATIS, SIGMET, etc) and NOTAMs. We also used it to receive flight plans, load sheets, load notification documents, operational messages from and to the company. It could basically be used for anything text based, no pictures. We also used it for position reporting in some of our older aircraft that couldn’t communicate by text directly to ATC (ADS-C). We would use the flight management computer (the MCDU or “McDoo” in Airbus speak) to generate the position report text, then it was transmitted via ACARS to our company who would forward it on to ATC.
Specific to ATIS, when we did the setup for our flight we would request the departure, destination, and alternate ATIS via ACARS and they got printed out on a little printer in the cockpit. It can also be displayed on the MCDU. Some airports have a digital ATIS system that would allow us to set up auto-updating. So you would send an ACARS request for the ATIS with auto-updates and it will print the current one then automatically print any new ones that come out subsequently. So, auto-updating for the departure ATIS but not for the destination and alternate. Once airborne we cancel the auto-update for the departure (waste of paper) and set up an auto-update for the destination, plus get a new one for the alternate. This is for short ~ 60 minute sectors, not much point getting an ATIS too early on a longer flight.
The other methods of obtaining an ATIS are all still available. Some places have a dedicated frequency. If there is a VOR then the ATIS will normally be on that, this serves the additional function as an identifier for the VOR. Some places have a phone number you can call (not much use airborne unless you have some way of making a phone call). I have also been to places that have all the equipment for an ATIS but no method for broadcasting it. In these cases there has been an aerodrome operator you could call by radio and they would pass the information to you. You can also get the ATIS from various internet websites so if you have an internet connection, which is becoming more common, you can get the ATIS on your tablet.
Back to ACARS. It can also patch through to phones and emails. If you’re going to be late you can send a text message to your girlfriend’s phone, “running late as usual, see you tonight.” It can also be used for direct messages between aircraft. It’s been around for donkey’s years but it’s pretty useful.
@N9IWP nailed it for GA in the USA.
As @Richard_Pearse said, ACARS is the traditional airline standard. And is traditionally carried over a conventional VHF comm radio like an old fashioned telephone audio modem. ACARS can now be carried over SatCom in a similar fashion.
The other coming thing for airlines is we have Wi-Fi on board connect to a different IP satellite data link. This is the same one the passengers use for email, Google, etc. With this Wi-Fi our tablet can connect to servers on the ground and drag up all sorts of NWS weather data, ATIS, radar maps, satellite cloud pix, and all the rest. Which end up inside our tablets’ weather app, our company management app, and/or our navigation chart (“Jeppesen”) app.
Nowadays Wi-Fi-to-satellite IP is the most convenient, but is less reliable than good old ACARS, at least over land.
Wow. We have none of that capability enabled on our ACARS. I can send a textual message to my specific dispatcher and that’s it.
No reason the more elaborate stuff couldn’t be enabled, since nowadays all data is just data and once the data is on the ground anything can be gatewayed to anything else. But my carrier hasn’t chosen to pay for that capability yet.
Yeah, we also have automated messages for emergencies, return to gate, and various other things. I don’t know how I flew without it.
On the other hand we don’t have this. We can unofficially access the internet on wifi enabled aircraft and just use whatever websites are publicly available. We don’t have any company specific information available. That said, having an internet connection is useful for the Jeppesen app. Ironically, Jepessen have not got access to the New Zealand D-ATIS system though, so although we can pull up METARs and TAFs on the Jepp app, we can’t get the ATIS.
We have all that as well. Fresh takeoff data, route replanning, etc. But our only free-text addressee is the dispatcher.
99% full time officially approved wifi is as big a boon as FMS was in its day. It’s really a game changer. Mostly for weather at least once airborne. In my job noodling around tropical islands prone to thunderstorms with half-assed weather observation facilities, being able to watch the big picture from space and now-cast how the destination and alternate(s) are evolving in near real time is huge.
Even on the ground it’s huge whenever stuff gets pear-shaped. Being able to reliably gather fresh paperwork, passenger data, ATC backlog info, and yes, weather, increases our operating SA so much over the old days. We also have cellular/mobile data capabilities built into the iPads, but reception can be iffy in the high EMR/EMI environment in the cockpit in the middle of a traffic jam of aircraft.
What is ADS-B? Watching some YouTube videos I see pilots suction-cupping an ADS-B receiver to their side window and I am puzzled because (in the videos I was watching) they were in very modern GA planes with some of the latest avionics suites out there (Garmin 1000 I think…maybe a Garmin 3000).
I’d be kinda pissed if I bought a $5 million private plane with $250,000 of avionics in it only to be told to run down to the store and buy something to suction-cup to my window to make the avionics complete.
Doubtless I am missing something but it still puzzles me why this isn’t a built-in feature on newer planes (I can see it being done for older ones if it is a new tech).
Welcome to aviation… Per the wiki, Automatic Dependent Surveillance–Broadcast - Wikipedia , it took effect 1/1/2020, which might be why many GA planes are playing catchup. Again from the wiki, these are the airspaces where you have to have it:
|Airspace|Altitude|
|A|All aircraft equipped|
|B|All aircraft equipped|
|C|All aircraft equipped|
|E|Above 10,000 ft MSL but not below 2,500 ft [AGL]
It’s also the reason many piston or turbine GA planes are limited to 28,000 ft, right?
Thanks.
I still do not understand why very modern avionics suites would not have this built in. Even if the directive took effect on January 1, 2020 surely it didn’t spring out of nowhere and take avionics manufacturers by surprise…did it?
I do computers for a living and changes to tech are a long time in the pipeline and everyone sees what’s coming loooong before it hits the streets so everyone has a chance to be ready for it (think a change to a USB spec as an example). I would hope the same is done in aviation but this stuff I don’t know. Given the glass cockpits that are most new avionics I would hope they’d have an ability to adapt to new stuff they know is coming in the next year or two without having to trash it all and start again.
ADS-B out is now needed in those airsopaces mentioned above
ADS-B IN is optional, but if you have a ABS-in device(which you can add to your fancy GPS, but you can also buy a $500 device*) Paired with a phone/tablet running appropriate software you can see other traffic that is spitting ADS-B out. There is a bunch of other useful info you can get:
https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/pilot/
Brian
ADS-B is a communication system with different levels of use. It allows pilots to download and upload their position to other aircraft. what you’re likely looking at is an interface to an Ipad which replaces older stand-alone GPS units for general aviation use. With the receiver they can get GPS satellite, weather, and other aircraft positions displayed on their ipad for free. It’s an uncertified navigation system that augments older certified systems in the plane.
Airplanes with panel mounted GPS units have the ADS-B built in with a hard mounted antenna on the exterior of the plane. these are certified systems for navigation. the difference between the 2 systems is probably another zero tacked on to the price.
Price. ADS-B is not required for all aircraft therefore it is an option. Even where ADS-B is required, it is only required to be ADS-B OUT and so most commercial operators, schools, etc will only purchase the minimum requirement. If the pilot wants ADS-B IN then they have to sort that out for themselves. On a passenger jet the ADS-B is just part of the transponder.
Yeah, I built my http://stratux.me for less than $100, maybe way less (if you consider I had a spare Raspberry Pi lying around). I did it primarily for the novelty factor since I’m not flying now, but I can fire up an EFB app on my iPad and have traffic data, weather, and synthetic vision with terrain awareness all with very little effort.
As I understand it from talking to some local pilots, the ‘suction cup’ option is often preferred even in well-equipped aircraft with ADS-B in and out because it’s easier to connect the Stratus/Stratux device to your iPad and EFB than to hope that your app of choice is compatible with the aircraft technology. And that’s assuming that the fancy hardware in a given airplane even does Bluetooth data sharing. Double that if you’re a renter.
I also built a statux, but never flown with it, as my club has a sentry.
Brian
Also influencing all this is FAA certification. Devices “installed” in an airplane must be built to FAA standards and specifically approved by the FAA, and the designs cannot be updated without re-approval. This equals expensive and backwards.
Devices “connected” to airplanes can be anything. As long as they’re not used as a “primary reference” for IFR flight.
So a suction cup-mounted GPS could be an app on your iGizmo that cost $12, while a panel-mounted FAA-certificated receiver/navigator could be $1000 and 10 years behind the times.
The situation is even worse in airliners, where “connected” is regulated as well. I have a company-issued iPad with a special FAA approval for in-flight use, but only of certain apps and each app revision needs another special approval. The cockpit has a 110v power outlet. It is forbidden to connect the two. That’s more “connected” than has been approved.
When we first got the iPads, the approved holder for them was a suction cup device that attached to our side windows. It was required that the suction cup device be removed from the window and stowed elsewhere every night when we put the airplane to bed. Then the next crew first thing in the morning would re-attach it to the window. Otherwise that was more installed then the FAA could allow without a months long approval testing and process that the holder manufacturer had no interest in paying for.
The FAA does a valuable service in preventing aviation from getting like the internet. But sometimes it does feel like they totally have the parking brake set when it comes to innovation.
Totally understandable but then you see what some shoddy programming did to the 737 Max and think maybe being overly cautious is not so bad. It remains that flying today is incredibly safe and a lot of that is due to the FAA being zealous in demanding everything on planes meet exacting standards.
Could they loosen up some? Almost certainly but I worry where that line is drawn and how well it could be kept to. Indeed, the 737 Max skated by because the FAA was trying to be nicer about certification and let Boeing just tell them all was peachy.
Following up on this aside here to avoid hijacking that other thread with aviator stuff …
I recognize CIGAR as a mnemonic and at one point eons ago I knew what it meant/means. I have no clue today. I have never heard of the others.
Though I do recall what GUMPS means and when to use it. And did more or less use it back in the day.
Which is not to say that you’re wrong about them being common. My point would just be that different areas of aviation have different traditions of knowledge.
FWIW:
| CIGAR | Runup/Ground Check |
|---|---|
| C | controls check |
| I | instruments set |
| G | gas (proper tank, pump on, etc) |
| A | attitude (flaps, trim, etc.) |
| R | runup |
| FLAPS | (VFR) Night Minimum Equipment |
|---|---|
| F | fuses, set of 3 each type |
| L | landing light if for hire |
| A | anti collision |
| P | position lights |
| S | source of electric (adequate) |
| BLITTS | Line-Up Check |
|---|---|
| B | boost pump on |
| L | lights as required |
| I | instruments set |
| T | transponder on |
| T | takeoff time noted |
| S | seat, belts, doors secured |
| MIDGET | After Landing |
|---|---|
| M | master off |
| I | ignition off |
| D | doors/windows locked |
| G | gust lock installed |
| E | ELT off |
| T | tiedown plane |
| CAPER | Maneuvers Checklist |
|---|---|
| C | Clearing Turns |
| A | Altitude, proper for manuever |
| P | Proper power & entry to maneuver |
| E | Execute maneuver |
| R | Recover from maneuver |
Thank you. I learn something every day. And kudos for some excellent formatting which I will now borrow plagiarize.
The USAF liked jingles more than they liked acronymic mnemonics. One I still carry around is the 6Ts: Time, Turn, Twist, Throttle(s), Talk, Track. Which is what to do when passing the final approach fix inbound on a non-precision approach.
| 6Ts | Final Approach Fix Inbound - Non-Precision Approach | |
|---|---|---|
| T | Time | Hack the stopwatch to begin timing your progress to the MAP. |
| T | Turn | Turn to the final approach course (if different from your inbound course to the fix). |
| T | Twist | Adjust the OBS to the final approach course (if different from your inbound course to the fix). |
| T | Throttle(s) | Reset power to the setting for your desired rate of descent, typically 1000-1500 FPM depending on your IAS. |
| T | Talk | Notify ATC of fix passage: “{ATC agency}{your callsign} {fixname} inbound” (skip if in radar contact). |
| T | Track | Adjust heading continuously as necessary to settle on and maintain the (new) course to the MAP. |
That’s kinda dated now. We fly “non-precision” = non-ILS approaches all the time. But nowadays instead of a flaky NDB- or VOR-based approach they’re GPS-driven RNAV approaches with the FMS driving the autopilot.
We don’t Time. HAL Turns if necessary, but it’s pretty rarely necessary. There’s nothing to Twist. HAL Throttles. We still Talk, but it’s rarely necessary at least in the USA; out in the Carribbean non-radar ATC is common. HAL Tracks.
Progress!!
I’d love to take credit but honestly it all came over in a simple copy/paste from that source.
Magic I tell ya!