No probs.
Well this is a “Rock” poll. Otherwise you would have Miles and Coltrane etc. But that still includes a lot of sounds. I didn’t say anything limiting that. Layla is fine. Also I think this was including north America, so CSNY was in. (Nash was English, that would be a better objection.)
I like the Eagles influences but them less so. (If I’m interpreting your words correctly) To me Americana is an attempt at authenticity after the fact. The “greatness” and the “Americana” of a band are two different issues to me. The latter might be even harder to pin down than the former.
Oops… ignore the misspelling of “defined” in the subject line. Too late to fix it now…
I think to really answer this question, we’d first have to define what “rock” means. The problem is that there are too many sub-genres that would be make-or-break points for the title of “overall greatest.” For instance: Best folk-rock: Simon and Garfunkel, best surf-rock: Beach Boys, best jam rock: The Grateful Dead, best punk: The Ramones, best Southern rock: Lynyrd Skynyrd, best Motown: Smokey Robinson and the Miracles.
I think to be “all time greatest,” a band would have to NOT be easily relegated to a small PORTION of the rock spectrum. (Think of all of the bases run by the likes of The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Led Zep, U2, et al.) IS there such an American band?
If so, the nominees, off the top of my head, would be:
The Doors
The Eagles
The Grateful Dead
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
… and offhand, I can’t think of others (though I suppose that my proposed “defining rules” would also let Aerosmith and KISS back into the running.) :rolleyes:
Well I think we established that S & G weren’t a group cause Artie didn’t play an instrument, and they are a duo.
The Beach Boys knock those groups all hollow for impact, compositions, and freshness of sounds, not to mention vocals. They made: Today, Summer Days and Summer Nights, Smiley smile, Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Holland, Sunflower, Surfs Up. If they were a genre restricted band I wouldn’t be able to say that. They are probably more influential musically than all of the above put together. They had at least 6 different members sing lead on tunes. They have been around as long as Dylan, and have been working or had some public presence ever since.
The OP specified “a general 3 point ‘success-fame/influential/rocking’ scale.” I don’t think you can beat the Beach Boys in the first two criteria. But many of the bands mentioned in this thread rock more/harder than the Beach Boys, so their viability as GARBoAT depends on how heavily you weight that third category (and how much weight you give to instrumental chops, though you could argue their primary instruments were/are their voices, or that Brian was a “studio virtuoso”).
Well the US never had competition for the Beatles and Stones and Kinks. That is why it comes back to the Beach Boys for me.
I think of those three criteria, “Rockingness” is the least well defined. It also is subject to the vagaries of time and style. The Beach Boys rocked in their time just as much or more than anyone. That it doesn’t seem like that now is hindsight. In other words in a poll like this without accounting for time and style changes it’s hard to make a judgement.
Do they “not rock” because of the ballads? Or because they didn’t have a lead guitar hero? Or they sang in harmony? Or they weren’t punk or metal? Those are all hindsight adjustments based on styles that came after, based on Beach Boys influences I might add. It’s been noted many times that the Ramones were essentially playing Beach Boys sped up.
Ehh, no. They pulled influences from a lot of places, their strongest influence was probably Spector’s wall of sound, but they pulled from a lot of different rock 'n roll acts. A great deal of their sound was garnered from one-hit wonders such as the Rivieras and the Trashmen, and garage punk bands like the Sonics.
To pretend that you can get from the BB to the Ramones by just speeding it up is silly. Wilson wouldn’t have touched half the subject matter the Ramones would, and there is very little of the Ramones’ sonic approach in the Beach Boys.
Drad -
I don’t think we CAN include all of North America to solve this debate… 'cause if we can, RUSH wins hands down, and has NO “American” members.
Going with the success/fame, influence/ rockingness parameters, I am prepared to abandon The Eagles in favor of Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.
While The Beach Boys may be all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips, they are really only popularly regarded for their California/surf sound. Bruce and co. really locked the lid on “American rockingness,” and remained a huge staple/ influence on rock for 40 years. They went into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year, and their songs will be played for decades to come.
Locally, there’s a radio station that plays oldies/ classic rock (emphasis on oldies) that for some unknown reason treats Huey Lewis and the News as the second coming of Christ - you’ll hear 5-6 Huey songs in any 8-hour period, but maybe 2 Beatles songs, and ONE Elvis. Point being, SOMEONE (you, me, the radio-station manager, whoever) makes the decisions of what sounds “classic” to our ears based upon our age and exposure to all that is rock. I do think we have to set our particular upbringings and tastes aside to answer this question. (For instance, I will admit that I am neither a KISS or Aerosmith fan (but can’t deny the gravity they have in the rock universe), so I tend to cast a certain amount of aspersion on them. But I’m also not a Grateful Dead fan, but can recognize their ability, their legacy to rock music, and their undeniable fan-base.)
The Answerman now says, with moderate conviction, the answer to this question is, after all the nominations and side issues previously stated, Bruce and his band.
Yes, I know someone out there will tell me I’m wrong. That’s fine. But when you do, tell me WHY. 
Kiss have no gravity in the rock universe. They have always been a joke. I was around in the 70s.
Rush are not so great. Some good riffs. But listen to Bastille Day. Gawd.
I already gave example for the breadth of the Beach Boys talents. Don’t listen to me. Ask real musicians all through the history of rock since the 60s.
I already listed 5 better bands than you cited,
and Bruce and his band don’t cut it for me. No risk, no challenge.
If it was Bruce and another group of guys you would be saying the same thing. CAuse he’s the BOSS…Therefore the E st band with Bruce are not the greatest. They are a solo singer/songwriter with a great band backing him. Why don’t you vote for him for best singer songwriter? Does he have to be the Boss of everyone? He’s not mine.
I’m having trouble accepting Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band as a “rock band”. Not only is he clearly the leader of the band, but when he went off and recorded albums by himself, it just doesn’t sound any different. [Same with Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers.] To me, a band is where you can see input and direction from more than one member. Even more importantly, there is too little range and style differences in Springsteen’s music.
If we include Canada, Rush is the clear winner, but that isn’t what is being asked. I still have to go with the Beach Boys, though I could give a nod to Cheap Trick or The Ramones. I guess The Eagles are in the conversation, but I’d put The Grateful Dead and a few others ahead of them, too.
It’s kind of fascinating, when you contemplate “rock bands”, you immediately think of all of the great British groups in the 60s and 70s. In addition to the 60s British Invasion groups, I’d certainly throw Queen in the mix.
Some of us might stretch to a whole bunch of others but general agreement could probably be had on Pink Floyd, the Pistols, Clash, Smiths and Radiohead.
After posting yesterday, I thought about any newer bands that might qualify. One of the few I came up with is Green Day, who was successful, influential and ambitious. I didn’t see them included in the poll contained in the poll thread.
Well, the only argument I can think of against their inclusion would be that it’s hard to claim influence without originality. At the time they broke, they were following a well-trodden melodic hardcore path worn by Social Distortion, The Descendents and 7 Seconds. Green Day may have sold more records than their predecessors, but they aren’t really innovating as far as I can tell.
That said, you can always select “other” and write them in.
I’m obviously an avid VH fan but I Aerosmith is always my first thought when it comes to the quintessential American band for every reason you can think of.
As far as having the most influence?
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, The Velvet Underground, and the Ramones are still reverberating in the rock music we hear (and see) today.
FTR, if we’re disqualifying bands with members that a were not born in the US, VH would be eliminated since Eddie and Alex are Dutch.
No mention of Metallica?
Sparky says:
“I’m obviously an avid VH fan but I Aerosmith is always my first thought when it comes to the quintessential American band for every reason you can think of.”
Aerosmith was signed to Columbia in 1973, and their first album was something of a disappointment to the company. They grudgingly released “Dream On” as a single, but it only went to #59 on the charts anywhere outside of Boston. This song didn’t “make it big” 'til it was re-issued in 1976.
Admittedly, the band was HUGE in the 70’s and does have a fanbase and their own influence on later rock.
But…
They were DONE by 1984. They had to hold a “comeback tour” and later sell out to Run DMC and Eminem to reinvigorate a new fanbase. Their ONLY #1 single was a ballad for a movie featuring Tyler’s daughter. (Talk about selling out.)
Steven Tyler spent MILLIONS on drugs, and admits that there’s at least a year he does not remember. (If it wasn’t for Joe Perry bringing in manager Tim Collins 'round 1984, we probably would’ve never heard from this band again.)
Meanwhile, the band currently has no contract with any record label, and Steven Perry is looking to record a solo country album.
I daresay that last statement would never have held true for, say, Jim Morrison. Ever.
So… for those of you who don’t like my reasoned nomination of Springsteen (and your arguments may well be valid,) we have to look to other rock notables.
I hereby dismiss Aerosmith for the above reasons.
We can also dismiss Van Halen as non-Americans.
Is the greatest American rock band of all time REALLY the Beach Boys? What about The Doors or The Dead?
I shall now defer to the forum for input.
Meh. Too much struggle. Weird that this is such a puzzle.
(VH are “non-American”? Yeah, I get it; EVH and AVH are Dutch Indonesian. But they grew up in Pasadena and broke big here.)
Which U.S. band best measures up to the status of (for example) the Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd?
I’d say the Eagles, just in terms of number of classic rock staples, sales and longevity. No other band proper really comes close.
The Eagles are pretty much Fleetwood Mac, and not even Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac. Struggle to be second tier.
Yep. But to me that just means we have a !Div0/Null Set/NP Complete type situation and therefore the problem is unsolvable. (ETA: seriously, The Eagles just sucks as an answer to this question, even while they clearly satisfy the criteria you state. They aren’t remotely close in sheer rock danger, innovation/exploration/blues, songs, media phenomenon/cultural touchstones, etc. as the top dozen British bands.)
The answer to this question illustrates Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems 
Flipping through this thread, I was amazed at how many of the “great” bands are British. I’d keep thinking of someone and then remember they weren’t American.
Van Halen are about as American as a band can possibly be. I hate them, but I keep on coming back to them.
The Eagles are derivative and boring. The Stooges, Blue Cheer and the MC5 didn’t have enough mainstream success. KISS are primarily famous for non-musical things. Alice Cooper wasn’t even really a band for most of his/their careers.
If it’s not Van Halen, it’s Metallica. Original, hugely influential, and a massive sales success. Oh, and (Lars notwithstanding), very American.
Metallica are a legit choice and would be far more satisfying than The Eagles. I could do without the bloated movies and music post Black Album, but they cover the right bases.