The greatest American rock band of all time?

[scabpicker]

@drad_dog

My point is that looking backwards through a backwards telescope is limited and makes it smaller. It has nada to do with the reality.

And you can view your past in a crystal clear manner, as if it is photographed in bullet time?

@drad_dog

I wasn’t referring to self-consciousness. It was a total paradigm shift.You must not have been there. The punks were very self conscious, and they (said they) hated the older bands. It was like the biggest change ever and it took the bands a long time to get over it. It took years before anyone would admit to liking Zeppelin, have long hair again, play guitar solos. Meanwhile most cities got “scenes” where there had only been cover bands before. That wasn’t a pivot point? Where were you?

Where were you? I can point to music scenes that existed in my metropolitan area going back to the 30’s, and there was certainly an active music scene in the area during the intervening years.

Here in Texas when I was coming of age, plenty of kids listened to Zeppelin and had long hair, and that was one fad that had never gone away. They also listened to DK (who looked like engineers), Black Flag (who had long hair), and the Cramps (who looked like the Cramps). Yet, my first audition to play bass for a punk band involved me playing Toccata in D minor over the phone to the guitarist. I got the job, but they broke up before I was able to play with them. The singer in the next punk band I was in was listened to CSNY to the point where he plain broke any love I had for close vocal harmonies. Yeah, those folks were completely interested in image over musicianship, terrified of what others thought.

@drad_dog

I’m not proud of being there. But “Bupkiss”? So much for fighting ignorance eh?

Sorry. We can start with the fact that an eyewitness is notoriously unreliable, and work from there, eh? We were both apparently around for the late 70’s/early 80’s, and our experiences seem to vary wildly. Which one is true?

@drad_dog

The point is older bands sound slower and have less production at their disposal, not to mention less marketing strategy (in the production) (!) , and are way less monomaniacal about “ROCKING”. They had other things to say that made them great artists. That’s rock too. But their music must be better whether it rocked or not because most of the great bands cited here are prepunk and pre NWOBHM. If you are only looking backwards through a small lens you won’t see it.

To judge them against each other for booty scooting is not informational. “How much they rocked” is very much a function of their mini-era, and not their quality.

The point about production is, well, pointless. High production values don’t make a band rock any harder; it just makes them sound more polished, controlled and refined. Bo Diddley didn’t have 1/10th the production value of Pat Boone. Guess who rocked harder?

Older artists were slow? I refer you to Dick Dale, and dare you to tell me he’s slow.

Most of the bands listed are pre-punk or pre-NWOBHM? Who cares? The idea of them being inherently superior because of chronology is pretty much bankrupt. By that logic, why weren’t the first wave automatically the best? (Bo Diddley NOW! Bo Diddley FOREVER! Yeah, I could get behind that, if those are the rules.)

Your bias against bands from after a certain time makes me suspect you’re not trying to find the GARBOAT, you’re trying to find the greatest rock band of some arbitrary point in your youth. Well, that’s apparently long past (as is mine). We’re thinking about for all time, up till now. It’s going to take a mighty strong band from the last 10 years to win it, because it takes time to solidify yourself as “The Greatest”; but this is for now, not then. I’m hoping Thudlow Boink is on to something, and the greatest when measured in 2100 is still in the future. Maybe it’ll be somebody inspired by Dan Deacon, and I’ll have something nice to route to the audio path of my robot body.

And in closing, I’d like to nominate two bands that I think have been overlooked, and we should all be ashamed (this includes me):

DEVO! D-E-V-O!
The Sonics (My drummer would dismember me if he knew we went this far without me nominating them, and my sun-bleached skull would become a decoration on his kit. Don’t tell him!)

[Leaffan]

Well, I’m not going to read all 4 pages or 161 posts, but Van Halen certainly deserves credit.

The first band that came to mind for me was Aerosmith, and that might be the right answer.

Then I read that someone mentioned KISS, and you know what? From a marketing and sales perspective this is the definitive answer. Sorry, but KISS is the quintessential American rock band.

[Robert163]

@Leaffan

Well, I’m not going to read all 4 pages or 161 posts, but Van Halen certainly deserves credit.

I will summarize the results for you. Many people have given many opinions. Only a few have given the correct answer. There is only one correct answer:

Grand
Funk
Railroad

[solost]

OK, I completed the poll:

Who is the greatest American rock band of all time?

[blondebear]

@Ranger_Jeff

1. Does Tom Petty do ANY songs that don’t make some reference to California?

From American Girl:

Well it was kind of cold that night,
She stood alone on her balcony
Yeah, she could hear the cars roll by,
Out on 441 like waves crashin’ on the beach…

441 being US 441, which runs from Florida to Tennessee.

[Busy_Scissors]

@Snarky_Kong

Rock is definitely in a slump. The Black Keys are about the only good and popular band right now. In the last 10 years add the White Stripes. Hopefully it bounces back.

How popular are The War on Drugs in the US atm? Lost in the dream topped every album of the year list going, when it was released last year. Very accessible (and retro) sound - generates a lot of argument over how they distilled such a phenomenal album out of some very pedestrian influences.

It was their breakthrough album, though, so maybe the next one will be what makes them more broadly popular.

[Some_Call_Me.Tim]

The Doors and Aerosmith are the two that would compete in my mind, with an honorable mention to Blue Öyster Cult.

For my “why haven’t they been mentioned yet” contribution, going with the Canadians count as North Americans theme - Rush has the hits and the longevity.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Leaffan

Then I read that someone mentioned KISS, and you know what? From a marketing and sales perspective this is the definitive answer. Sorry, but KISS is the quintessential American rock band.

From a marketing perspective, the Monkees are the definitive American rock band.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Busy_Scissors

How popular are The War on Drugs in the US atm? Lost in the dream topped every album of the year list going, when it was released last year. Very accessible (and retro) sound - generates a lot of argument over how they distilled such a phenomenal album out of some very pedestrian influences.

It was their breakthrough album, though, so maybe the next one will be what makes them more broadly popular.

This dinosaur listened to that album and liked it.

[drad_dog]

@scabpicker

And you can view your past in a crystal clear manner, as if it is photographed in bullet time?

Where were you? I can point to music scenes that existed in my metropolitan area going back to the 30’s, and there was certainly an active music scene in the area during the intervening years.

Here in Texas when I was coming of age, plenty of kids listened to Zeppelin and had long hair, and that was one fad that had never gone away. They also listened to DK (who looked like engineers), Black Flag (who had long hair), and the Cramps (who looked like the Cramps). Yet, my first audition to play bass for a punk band involved me playing Toccata in D minor over the phone to the guitarist. I got the job, but they broke up before I was able to play with them. The singer in the next punk band I was in was listened to CSNY to the point where he plain broke any love I had for close vocal harmonies. Yeah, those folks were completely interested in image over musicianship, terrified of what others thought.

Sorry. We can start with the fact that an eyewitness is notoriously unreliable, and work from there, eh? We were both apparently around for the late 70’s/early 80’s, and our experiences seem to vary wildly. Which one is true?

The point about production is, well, pointless. High production values don’t make a band rock any harder; it just makes them sound more polished, controlled and refined. Bo Diddley didn’t have 1/10th the production value of Pat Boone. Guess who rocked harder?

Older artists were slow? I refer you to Dick Dale, and dare you to tell me he’s slow.

Most of the bands listed are pre-punk or pre-NWOBHM? Who cares? The idea of them being inherently superior because of chronology is pretty much bankrupt. By that logic, why weren’t the first wave automatically the best? (Bo Diddley NOW! Bo Diddley FOREVER! Yeah, I could get behind that, if those are the rules.)

Your bias against bands from after a certain time makes me suspect you’re not trying to find the GARBOAT, you’re trying to find the greatest rock band of some arbitrary point in your youth. Well, that’s apparently long past (as is mine). We’re thinking about for all time, up till now. It’s going to take a mighty strong band from the last 10 years to win it, because it takes time to solidify yourself as “The Greatest”; but this is for now, not then. I’m hoping Thudlow Boink is on to something, and the greatest when measured in 2100 is still in the future. Maybe it’ll be somebody inspired by Dan Deacon, and I’ll have something nice to route to the audio path of my robot body.

And in closing, I’d like to nominate two bands that I think have been overlooked, and we should all be ashamed (this includes me):

DEVO! D-E-V-O!
The Sonics (My drummer would dismember me if he knew we went this far without me nominating them, and my sun-bleached skull would become a decoration on his kit. Don’t tell him!)

Your anecdotes are not all that intriguing. I don’t think our experiences vary all that much though.

The late 70s started the hotbed of indie scenes of original rock music, instigated by punk. Before that it was mostly cover bands even in bigger cities. The thirties isn’t relevant to the rock scene, as you already pointed out. To me we are talking about 1962 to present for this purpose. Punk was important even to those in towns that you think were untouched.

This started as an argument about “Rocking” and how the idea of it changed over time. The common use of the trope of “It Rocks” and “It doesn’t rock” is much more recent than the bands we’re talking about. Therefore I find it interesting to question what “Rocking” means to people.

When I say Production I am talking about the fact that there is a lot of effort in the production side to make “canned” rock; music produced to be earcandy for kids to say “That Rocks!!!” Think of bands whose records sound like the producer is more influential than the players. Like a lot of metal records. Many people would hear the production and say it “rocks.” If you think that Metallica rocks harder than the Replacements for instance, you must think Pat Boone rocks harder than Bo Diddley.

I wouldn’t be inclined to say that. It’s the players (or the writer) who rock and not the producer, or the engineer.

I have no agenda about older bands. I have a feeling that the scenes have become too fragmented for us to agree on what the best newer bands are. This may be a sign of decadence, or maybe not.

[Ruby_Slippers]

I guess I’m late to the party – as usual. A few of my favorite bands have already been mentioned, the Doors and the Eagles. Of course, one of my personal favorites doesn’t stand a chance – The Iron Butterfly. Why, yes, I’m a dinosaur. What was your first clue? But I’m a bit surprised there was no mention of Heart. I’m listening to them on YouTube right now. Or do they not qualify as a band since they’re primarily the Wilson sisters plus backups?

[scabpicker]

@drad_dog

Your anecdotes are not all that intriguing. I don’t think our experiences vary all that much though.

Yeah, we’re done here. This is as idiotic as you trying to redefine mellow as “things drad dog doesn’t like”. '62 as a starting year? I can’t imagine a reason to start there, unless you’ve got a bad case of Beatles worship.

[drad_dog]

@scabpicker

Yeah, we’re done here. This is as idiotic as you trying to redefine mellow as “things drad dog doesn’t like”. '62 as a starting year? I can’t imagine a reason to start there, unless you’ve got a bad case of Beatles worship.

I am not dictating. You can have it any way you need. Most people date “Rock” as opposed to “Rock and Roll” to Beatles and after. Mainly because of the flood of composer performers that happened then. It seemed reasonable to me, but I’m not locked in.

I’m not sure what you’re saying the alternative is or why it’s important.

You seem to misunderstand me as well as misquote me for effect: I like mellow. I like laid back. It belongs in rock music. I thought it was you who said that “Have you ever seen the rain” was too mellow.

[Typo_Negative]

@Ranger_Jeff

Two things:

1. Does Tom Petty do ANY songs that don’t make some reference to California?

Seeing as he and the band are from Florida, I would imagine there are a good many.

[blondebear]

One American band that hasn’t been mentioned, and had enormous radio/TV exposure in the mid/late 60s is Paul Revere and The Raiders. They might not be in the same league as the major contenders here, but they put out some finely crafted pop/rock in their heyday.

[scabpicker]

@drad_dog

I am not dictating. You can have it any way you need. Most people date “Rock” as opposed to “Rock and Roll” to Beatles and after. Mainly because of the flood of composer performers that happened then. It seemed reasonable to me, but I’m not locked in.

I’m not sure what you’re saying the alternative is or why it’s important.

Who wrote the music that Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley performed? ‘62 is arbitrary date, in my view. There were plenty of writers/performers before then, and to pretend that the Beatles’ first few records were anything but a teenybopper Rock 'n Roll act is silly. They didn’t write much besides love songs until Revolver in '66. Similarly, Rock and Rock 'n Roll don’t have enough difference to be viewed as separate entities for our purposes here, and to try to place a hard date on that shift would be difficult, to say the least.

@drad_dog

You seem to misunderstand me as well as misquote me for effect: I like mellow. I like laid back. It belongs in rock music. I thought it was you who said that “Have you ever seen the rain” was too mellow.

No, it appears you just misunderstand. I’m referring to your attempt to re-define mellow as “lacking peaks and valleys” or some such nonsense earlier.

[drad_dog]

@scabpicker

Who wrote the music that Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley performed? ‘62 is arbitrary date, in my view. There were plenty of writers/performers before then, and to pretend that the Beatles’ first few records were anything but a teenybopper Rock 'n Roll act is silly. They didn’t write much besides love songs until Revolver in '66. Similarly, Rock and Rock 'n Roll don’t have enough difference to be viewed as separate entities for our purposes here, and to try to place a hard date on that shift would be difficult, to say the least.

No, it appears you just misunderstand. I’m referring to your attempt to re-define mellow as “lacking peaks and valleys” or some such nonsense earlier.

Dude, I said you could pick your year. Go ahead. Don’t gripe at me.

The “flood” started after the Beatles. It’s not disputable.

I said that records that only “rock” don’t have peaks and valleys, and can be monotonous, which kind of negates the excitement of “rock.” It’s ying and yang.

[Cardinal]

@SykoSkotty

Well kids, it goes like this…

The greatest American rock band of all time is KISS.

More gold records than any other american band, and second in gold records world wide. The only band with more global gold records than KISS? That’s right…The Beatles.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391435&highlight=coasters

In which it is (sort of) decided that KISS is the band that made the most money after they stopped mattering, because they essentially never mattered.

[scabpicker]

@drad_dog

Dude, I said you could pick your year. Go ahead. Don’t gripe at me.

Ok, 1945.

@drad_dog

I said that records that only “rock” don’t have peaks and valleys, and can be monotonous, which kind of negates the excitement of “rock.” It’s ying and yang.

It’s like you don’t remember what you typed, and don’t care to go back and look:

@drad_dog

Mellow is in the ear of the beholder. I might think that a lack of peaks and valleys in a record means that it is mellower (Maybe I should say “more somnolent”) regardless of the attitude struck. Even if the metronome is faster, or the amp is on 11. It has less interest. Some play real fast and lose all the feel in the rush. To me that’s like being asleep, esp across a whole record.

[drad_dog]

@scabpicker

Ok, 1945.

It’s like you don’t remember what you typed, and don’t care to go back and look:

I was consistent. What you may think “Rocks” I may describe as somnolent. Get it?