Personally, I think the haka kicks more ass than a kangaroo at a nudist convention. But I live in the United States, where appropriation of native tribal names, images, and dances at sports events is often controversial.
Is there any opposition in New Zealand to the haka, not on the grounds that it glorifies war, but on the ground that it rips out of context and trivializes Maori culture?
The other team should simultaneously do the hokey-cokey,.
Or Denmark’s royal anthem (not national):
And Men of Harlech, mentioned above, of course insults the “Saxons.”
As with anything, you’ll find some Maori who are cool with it and some who aren’t. The wikipedia page mentions complaints about fans doing it, but not about the team.
The Florida State Seminoles were mentioned above. They are one of the few (only?) Native-themed teams in the US who are somewhat sanctioned by the tribe. You’ll find some Seminoles who still don’t like it though (especially outside of Florida).
Six Awesomely Violent National Anthems.
Even Panama has national anthem with martial references, even though there was exactly one fatality when it gained independence from Colombia.
Sportsmanship. It’s respect for an opponent, and respect for the game. The haka isn’t just a New Zealand tradition, it’s a *rugby *tradition.
The haka should be banned.
And the game should be played without keeping score, so nobody loses any self-esteem.
I’ve been in that audience in that building!
It looks to me like one in Rotorua, but it’s been a while since I’ve been there.
A huge number of All Blacks are Maori and Polynesian, and they are sticklers for having it done properly; further, Maori have a huge cultural voice here about what they do and don’t deem appropriate uses of their culture, and you just don’t get away with mocking it or ripping it off. It’s not just a bunch of pale white guys doing their pasty approximation of a war dance: it’s made clear that it’s theirs. Similarly, the New Zealand professional rugby league team is the Warriors, this is their emblem, but their is no complaint that Pacific culture is being trivialised because practically every face in the team is brown. They own that shit.
…it doesn’t take anything out of context: and it most certainly doesn’t trivialise Maori culture at all. New Zealand is officially a bi-cultural nation. The army has a haka, so does the police force, nearly every school has its own haka. This isn’t appropriation. It is an expression of our culture, of who we are as a people.
As an aside: I’ve posted this before, but this video shows the haka at its most powerful as the soldiers express their grief through actions and words: the silence after the haka finishes is haunting.
My complaints about the Haka are not complaints about competition, physical games, or about rugby. They are not directed at the warlike lyrics of national anthems (But it does need to be repeated at every opportunity: The Simpsons are right with regards to “O Canada” vs. SSB). They are not directed at fans. They can stick out their tongues all they want.
This is about rugby. I want to see rugby, not boxing. Watch Colibri’s clip #5. What are the Welsh doing standing around instead of playing rugby? They are responding to a provocation, saying they wouldn’t mind a fight. What if opponents got right up in the grill of Kiwis doing Ka Mate? It would be seen as a provocation and lead to a fight. If you want posturing, you have boxing weigh-in’s and the WWE. Why is it an integral part of rugby?
If the Wallabies win by 4 tries and do a parody Haka afterwards is it not unsportsmanlike ? Why is after bad, but not before?
Quit prancing around pretending you are Te Rauparaha, let’s see what kind of lateral you can throw!
Sure, but Tech’s mascot is some kind of Zorro the Gay Blade/Yosemite Sam kind of guy.
Now if it was Florida State doing some sort of gruesome Seminole custom, then that’s a tad more in line with the Kiwi rugby team doing the haka.
As far as a bunch of white guys parodying the haka, you would run the serious risk of getting your teeth kicked down your throat: that happened over thirty years ago, and awareness has shifted much further than then. Maori are not an isolated, fringe culture, they’re in the mainstream and with a huge amount of social, cultural and political clout. You don’t get away with mocking or trivialising their traditions.
Jeesus. Where’s an eye-rolling animation when you need one?
Not sure I follow.
…that’s bullshit dude. “White guys” do not run the risk of getting their teeth kicked down their throat for parodying the haka, heck Matt Dawson did it a few weeks ago and the most he got was a bit of eye-rolling. People are free to mock the haka and they are free to trivialise it. We have come a long way since He Taua stormed into a room with baseball bats and hoses who then proceeded to lock the doors and start to deal out beatings. And thank goodness for that.
How often does that happen?
Why are marching bands an integral part of college football?
…fortunately you are in the minority. A few years ago the Wales Rugby Union asked the All-Blacks to perform the Haka after the NZ anthem (having agreed to doing this the year before under the understanding that it was a “one-off” to mark the Wales-New Zealand centenary). The All-Blacks refused: choosing to instead perform the haka in the changing rooms. Because the thing is we don’t perform the haka for an audience. We perform it for us. Said best here:
There was an uproar after the All-Blacks did this: but the upshot was that no-one has tried to change the traditional order again. Because as much as a few people complain about the haka, there is a much larger group of people that demand it. And if they pay money to see the All-Blacks they expect them to perform the haka. We do it for ourselves: but it is demanded by the fans. And the rugby governing bodies are well aware of this. As long as the All-Blacks make money you are going to have to put up with a bunch of people “prancing around pretending you are Te Rauparaha.”
Does this go both ways though? Is the haka meant as a gesture of respect for an opponent, or is this the New Zealanders saying “fuck you” to the other team and if they don’t like it then they’re the poor sports.
I missed that, what happened?