“The Hispanic Challenge” to American Culture: Has Samuel Huntington Gone Bonkers?

[Voodoochile]

@IzzyR

This, in turn, has lessened the degree that Spanish people need to assimilate to the larger society.

To a degree, yes; but a small degree. The reality is that, to get a better job than washing dishes or flipping burgers, you need to speak and understand english.

It is also possible that as society has moved to confront the evils of racism, there has been a lessening of an emphasis on assimilation, and a move to accommodate those of other cultures, and indeed to celebrate those cultures as examples of diversity. This has positive aspects, of course, but it also likely contributes to the lessening of the pressure on immigrants to assimilate.

Well, only if you think of multi-culturalism as being one culture here, one there; in the model of, say, a mexican part of town, a jewish part of town, an anglo part of town etc. I dont consider that multi-culturalism myself, more like multi apartheid.

But when you think of multi-culturalism as individuals each adopting parts of differnet cultural packages that they themselves like, I dont think your point is something to worry about.

Mexicans for example, as they move here, are exposed to a whole lot more than they were in Mexico, usually. As individuals, they are going to look at all these things they are exposed to, and adopt more than a few (and yes, reject a few too). There need be no ‘pressure’.

And we non-hispanics also adopt quite a bit from them; salsa outsells ketsup. And really, apart from the food we eat and the language we speak, I cant think of too many cultural differences. Some of my best friends are hispanic, and beyond language they arent any different than most americans. Its always struck me how much in common we have, underneath the superficial stuff.

For these reasons, the cites (and anecdotes) that some posters have posted on language assimilation are not conclusive. It is very possible that for earlier generations of Spanish immigrants, who immigrated at a time when the Spanish presence was much smaller, and societal attitudes different, assimilation and integration was a much higher priority than it is today.

I dont think it was ever a priority to assimilate. I dont think it is now. What was a priority, and what still is, is to have a better life for themselves and their family, with hopefully more opportunity. Because this is the prime motivator, to achieve this, a certain amount of assimilation is required. The mexicans who havent assimilated are the ones who still stand on street corners waiting for labor work even when theyve been here 2 or 3 years.

Very few people come here from anywhere with the intention of assimilating and integrating. Those things are just a consequence of what they do come here for.

And if there’s one factor that allows for the development of different cultures among people in close proximity it is the speaking of different languages.

Since the Hispanic proportion of the population is continuing to grow, this problem, to the extent that it exists, will only get worse for the foreseeable future.

I don’t think the sky is falling in just yet, but it is a legitimate concern, that does not deserve to be drowned out by shouts of racism.

Well, racism, cultural bigotry; its a fine line. But I dont see it as a problem thats going to get worse; not by nature anyway, but possibly by design. In other words, its a problem only if people choose to make it one. Xenophobia is a potential reaction to the absolute horror of being around people who speak differently; but it is not the only potential reaction, and so it is an individual choice.

I think this whole paper by this guy was driven by the protectionist trend in the US right now, whether its corp outsourcing or hispanic immigration.

[IzzyR]

Eva Luna, the article looks like an extremely lengthy one. Huntington himself doesn’t seem to be attracting any support at all, so I figured I could come in and offer some partial support. If you feel that this is hijacking your thread, let me know and I’ll cease and desist.

BTW, I’m not merely saying that money spent on bi-lingual education is being wasted. I am saying that the likelihood of two separate cultures speaking two separate languages developing in the US is greater in the case of Hispanics than it was in the case of other earlier groups of immigrants (or even earlier waves of Hispanic immigrants). And that should this happen it would be a very negative development.

JRDelirious, I don’t disagree with anything in your post.

@Voodochile

To a degree, yes; but a small degree. The reality is that, to get a better job than washing dishes or flipping burgers, you need to speak and understand english.

This is true, for the most part. But it becomes less and less true as Hispanic subcultures grow. (I am under the impression that there are parts of the US in which speaking Spanish is more important than speaking English, from a professional standpoint). Also, you are focusing on jobs - a lot of Hispanic people open their own businesses, and in a business catering to the Hispanic community English is not much of a necessity, if at all.

Well, only if you think of multi-culturalism as being one culture here, one there; in the model of, say, a mexican part of town, a jewish part of town, an anglo part of town etc. I dont consider that multi-culturalism myself, more like multi apartheid.

But when you think of multi-culturalism as individuals each adopting parts of differnet cultural packages that they themselves like, I dont think your point is something to worry about.

I don’t see “multi-culturalism” as anything in particular. In fact I did not even use the term, so how I think of it is not relevant.

I dont think it was ever a priority to assimilate. I dont think it is now.

I disagree with your first sentence. Certainly in the case of most immigrants that I’ve heard of, they were eager to become Americans ASAP. This may well have been for practical reasons, i.e. making a better life etc. But for this very reason, the increased ability to accomplish this without assimilating lessens the incentive to do this.

(FWIW, I’ll toss out another factor as well. It is my impression that a relatively high percentage of Hispanic immigrants intend to return to their homelands eventually, after they’ve made some money here. (Due to exchange rates being what they are, many people can make what is in America a small amount of money but will go a lot further in their own countries.) This does not always happen eventually, though. In this regard, there may be another difference between the current situation and earlier waves of immigrants, who immigrated at a time when travel was more prohibitive.)

Well, racism, cultural bigotry; its a fine line. But I dont see it as a problem thats going to get worse; not by nature anyway, but possibly by design. In other words, its a problem only if people choose to make it one. Xenophobia is a potential reaction to the absolute horror of being around people who speak differently; but it is not the only potential reaction, and so it is an individual choice.

Well murder and robbery are similarly problems only if people (i.e. the murderers and robbers) chose to make them one. Yes it would be great if people of different cultures could always look at each other without suspicion. But the fact is that they generally don’t. If you look at the history of the world, or even at other situations of this type in today’s world, it is not at all encouraging. So it is a potential problem.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Duck Duck Goose

And, oh lord preserve us, there’s even a plug for the White Nationalists tacked onto the very end.'Bout as subtle as a brick.

Eva, don’t waste your time trying to address this. Everybody recognizes it for what it is–a lot of standard anti-immigration racist claptrap.

To be fair to Huntington, he’s not advocating White Nationalism. He’s saying that, if you accept the idea of identity politics, and multiculturalism, that leads to white nationalism, because white nationalists make the same arguments that other racial and ethnic culture advocates make. But he doesn’t think identity politics or cultural diversity in America is a good thing.

[Eva_Luna]

@IzzyR

Eva Luna, the article looks like an extremely lengthy one. Huntington himself doesn’t seem to be attracting any support at all, so I figured I could come in and offer some partial support. If you feel that this is hijacking your thread, let me know and I’ll cease and desist.

Oh no, I wasn’t asking you to cease and desist by any means. Au contraire (or should that be al contrario?), I was hoping to get everyone to read the article, at least in part. It’s really not as long as it looks at first glance online; I’ve got the print version at home, and it’s only a few pages long. The online layout doesn’t exactly mirror the print layout.

(And I just picked bilingual education out of a hat as a related topic that would potentially have been a legitimate debate, in contrast to “the Mexicans are invading!”)

[Cervaise]

@IzzyR

(I am under the impression that there are parts of the US in which speaking Spanish is more important than speaking English, from a professional standpoint)

Does that make the people in those communities who were born here or have become naturalized citizens less American?

[HumptysHamhole]

I really have never understood the issue that white Americans have with Mexican and South American immigration. By the way I am a white, conservative, Texan who speaks Spanish. This article and many others including Pat Buchanan’s “Death of the West” always make the assertion that hispanic immigrants are not somehow part of Western culture. I can find nothing further from the truth. Other than differences in language and some very trivial cultural differences Mexican-americans are pretty much the same as other americans. I would say that the average Mexican family living in the US is much closer culturally to the average white American family than an Italian or French family is close to an American family. In what conceivable way are Mexicans less “Western” than the Spanish? Every Mexican I know who lives here in Texas wants exactly what I want and works and behaves in the same manner in relation to the community. Most Mexicans and Texans share all the same “core” values on religion, family, work, success, education, etc. I just don’t understand this constant assertion that Mexicans are less “western” than the average American.

As for immigration - just let them in and tax them. The jobs argument is rediculous. How many college, or even high school grads, who grew up in the US are really willing to go pick lettuce for a living. Those complaining that immigrants are stealing thier jobs have never applied for job roofing houses or picking grapes . Mexican immigrants are not stealing tech jobs or sales positions, or management positions, or professional positions. And if you are a professional who lost a job to an immigrant then you should work harder and get more training. If the immigrant didn’t take it would have been shipped overseas anyway – make yourself inexpendable if you want to keep your job.

Also - if you live in Florida, Texas or California and you don’t speak Spanish then you are just plain lazy. Get over yourself and learn the language. It is quite possibly the easiest language on earth to learn and you will only benefit from knowing a second language. Why would you want to keep yourself from communicating with 30% of your community. By the way most mexican’s I know are also actively learning English so meet them halfway.

[Dogface]

@Zagadka

the Catholic Church is afraid of the Latin American branch of it taking over, and the Protestants are afraid of the Catholics. At one time, it was the Catholics expanding to Latin America, and the Catholics afraid of the Protestants. Go figure.

Actually, anti-Catholic paranoia has been a big part of US culture for centuries. The Ku Klux Klan was originally both racist and anti-Catholic. The Know-Nothings were both anti-Masonic and anti-Catholic. Likewise, the events of the movie Gangs of New York were not completely fictional, and part of the anti-Irish sentiment was anti-Catholic. Anti-catholicism and expressing it in racial terms is rather old in the USA.

Some of us up here remember the San Patrice far better than the official story.