The Hobbit Question

In the infographic about The Hobbit, they claim that there were no women in it, and no women mentioned by name other than Belladonna Took.

Are they going to totally eliminate the ending of the book where Bilbo’s house and contents are being given out because he is believed dead? I know that he has a set to with the Sackville-Baginses because of them taking his silverware - and I seem to remember that Lobelia S-B had them in her purse.

Galadriel is no longer a woman??

ETA- uh, they seem to be mixing up the book and the movie. The book was written 80 years ago, specifically for a boy.

They may also be restricting “characters” to persons who actually get screen… er… page-time directly, as opposed to simply being referenced.

and no one would care about point 3 (early draft of the hobbit, name changes) except people that already care about such a thing…

Nobody shoves a finger up Smaug’s cloaca, as I recall. The dwarves use ‘him’ but they don’t know.

No Sackville-Baggins is mentioned by name in my 3rd Edition of the Hobbit (1966.)
Bilbo buys back some furniture, but a few silver spoons are lost forever.

Galadriel is a female Elf. She does **not **appear in the Hobbit (and there is no mention of Lothlorien.)

According to Humphrey Carpenter in his autobigraphy of Tolkien, the book was written for Tolkien’s personal amusement.
As for the boy, you may have mixed up the true story of how Rayner Unwin (10 year old son of the chairman of the publishers Allen + Unwin) reviewed the Hobbit enthusiastically, leading to publication.

The first appearance of Smaug reads ‘There he lay, a vast red-gold dragon…’, Tolkien always refers to Smaug as male and there’s even the moment when Smaug rolls over to reveal to Bilbo a significant gap in his armour. :wink:

Extreme pedant-nerdery would take issue with the infographic’s wording that Belladonna is “the only woman mentioned by name”. She wasn’t a woman – she was a hobbit[ess].

To get into realms of completely “sad” nerdiness – and looking up my 5th edition of The Hobbit (reset 1995) – I take it that you’re saying that “Bilbo’s cousins the Sackville-Bagginses” (covetous of Bag End for their own home) are named thus at the end of the book – with the silver spoons issue – but no given names of the S-Bs are furnished.

The “light-fingered Lobelia” bit comes in the first chapter of LOTR, “A Long-Expected Party”. Bilbo, sixty years after the events of The Hobbit, is leaving the Shire, with lavish celebrations and present-giving; including a “barbed” gift to Lobelia – a case of silver spoons, labelled as for the recipient "as a PRESENT ". After Bilbo’s departure, Frodo, the heir to Bag End, is rather rudely called on there by the S-Bs – Lobelia and her husband Otho – demanding to see Bilbo’s will. In the course of this visit, Frodo finds Lobelia checking-out the domicile. “He escorted her firmly off the premises, after he had relieved her of several small (but rather valuable) articles that had somehow fallen inside her umbrella.”

Ah, so I was filling in Lobelias name from LOTR when I reread the Hobbit.

And I really enjoyed the Hobbit a lot more than LOTR - nothing against the whole epic thing, but I happen to like kid lit - light and fluffy, sort of the comfort food type read. I just finished scanning it in and will get to do a reread as I copy edit out the OCR fubars.

That’s a tough standard. None of the dwarves, hobbits or wizards are human either.
Which leaves the Lakemen. And Beorn, I guess. (Isn’t one of the Lakemen a woman? I rush through that part to get back to the Mountain.)

She’s in the movie that the image is taken from.

From the text part, points 1(?), 2, 3, and 4 seem to reference the books. 5 and 6 reference the movie(s). At least I think so, unless C.S. Lewis saw an early, early, early cut of the film. :slight_smile:

What’s “crew flights to Moria”? Just flights to NZ to film? Does a specific location stand in for Moria, and that’s where they flew? Did 9/10 of the movies’ budget require inter-dimensional flights to Middle Earth?

“3. In Tolkien’s first draft, Gandalf the wizard was called Bladorthin. More confusingly, Dwarf-leader Thorin was going to be called Gandalf.”

That’s because in Snorri Sturlason’s Prose Edda several dwarves are named. Most of the Dwarf names from the Hobbit come from there, and “Gandalf” is one of those names. In Norse it means “Wand-Elf”, the distinction between dwarves and elves was not exactly clear to the old Norse.

I suppose “Wand-Elf” sounded to Tolkein like a more appropriate name for a Wizard than for a Dwarf.

There are no female laketown residents mentioned in the edition I have.

I did a check myself for this a few months back, the only other mention of females of any species is a passing mention of woodsmen ‘and their wives and children’, and arguably some sheep at Beorn’s house (it specifies that one is a ram, implying the rest are ewes). Everything else is either male or not stated.

Even the bees at Beorn’s house have only the drones described…

I word-searched my ecopy of “The Hobbit”.

“Wife” appears 3 times, once referring to the legend that a Took had taken a fairy-wife, once referring to Girion’s wife, once referring to the wife of Carc the raven.

“Wives” appears once, referring to the Woodmen’s wives.

“Women” appears twice, referring to women in Laketown.

“Girl” appears once, referring to hobbit-girls.

“Belladonna” appears 4 times, at all times referring to Belladonna Took.

“Mother” is referred to, specifically as Fili & Kili’s mother, Gollum’s grandmother, and Bilbo’s mother.

“Niece” is referred to, both as Bilbo’s nieces and the dwarves’ nieces.

“She” is used once, to refer to Bilbo’s mother.

“Her” is used 4 times, 3 to refer to Bilbo’s mother, once in an elven song doubtless referring to Varda.

“Princesses” is used once, to describe characters in a Gandalf story.

No “woman”, “girl”, “lady”, “Lobelia”, “Dis”, “queen”, “matron”, “sister”, “female”, “feminine” or “wench” (okay that one was a long-shot).

No “Galadriel” either. Of course.

So while references to to females are scarce, they’re not completely absent.

Galadriel is not mentioned directly in the book. Gandalf is gone from The Hobbit on business. We find out in Fellowship where he was, and that Galadriel is involved.
But the complaining article has a graphic from the movie, so it’s reasonable to discuss the movie in response, not the book.

Not like it matters- feminists exist to find outrage. Once there’s no outrage, a feminist becomes a mere woman, and we can’t allow that. More Outrage!