The anticipation thread for all the Hobbit movies, which started in October 2010: The Hobbit movie(s) anticipation thread - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board
And here’s where you can freely discuss the newest movie. Have at it!
So, should I see it in HFR 2D or plain 2D?
Jesus, those special effects were intrusive. Nearly King Kong dinosaur stampede bad.
And that dragons scene went on for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long
I don’t think an HFR 2D option exists. I think it’s available in 2D, 3D, HFR 3D (which may or may not be IMAX) and regular IMAX 3D.
I saw it in HFR IMAX 3D and thought it was gorgeous! I was a fan of the 48fps for the first film and I specifically sought it out for this one. I was surprised to find that only one theater in all of New York City was showing the HFR version! It does take a bit to get used to, but it is so worth it for any scenes where there is fast movement or scenic pans. You can actually see what is being shown! Not just blurry movement!
(From what I posted in the anticipation thread):
I liked it much more than the first film, it felt like it had more emotion and story to it than the first one. The flow was much better and the action scenes played a lot more smoothly in the story. There was nothing as horribly bad as the Goblin King from the first film. I think this does suffer from being the middle film much more than The Two Towers did, however. With that film, at least you had Helm’s Deep to end with. Here, there really isn’t an ending, it just basically stops.
I was not a fan of the romance aspect, which seemed shoehorned in and added nothing except runtime to an already long movie, nor did I like them making Legolas such a large role. I thought he’d only be at Mirkwood (which does make canonical sense.)
Smaug was awesome and looked incredibly real in the HFR 3D.
I did notice one thing that stood out as very odd to me:
(Not really a spoiler of any kind, but)
What was up with having several close ups of Black, Asian & Hispanic random people in the crowds at Laketown? It weirdly stuck out to me as trying to appease some PC thing of people claiming the LOTR rings films were just about white people and I don’t remember any other towns as being so racially diverse. Was there an in-story reason for it? Because it didn’t feel inclusive to me at all, rather it was like Peter Jackson was saying "Here! Look here’s a Black person! CU on them! Now CU on the Hispanic woman! Now the Black woman again! We’re not just white people here, see? See!?
Is the location of Middle Earth a total fantasy, or did it exist in prehistorical Europe, as Conan’s geography is in prehistoric North Africa and perhaps the Mediterranean?
Tolkien’s work has the conceit that Tolkien is really just the translator of old documents written long ago (some of them by Bilbo and Frodo!). So, yes, in theory ME was a historical place, perhaps an analog of Europe + the UK (minus the English Channel), with the Shire in England.
Here’s someone’s take on the subject.
ETA: also note that “Middle Earth” is the exact meaning of “Mediterranean”. If that’s not a wink and a nod, I don’t know what is.
Thanks, squeegee. 
I enjoyed it, but it did seem to have the feel of something Michael Bay has had a pass at. Add more action! More boobs! Yet despite all the extra padding, it felt like they cut the Beorn stuff short. Maybe I’m remembering things wrong or thinking of the cartoon adaptation, but I thought the reveal that he was the bear was more built up to. Here, Gandalf just causally mentions it as soon as they arrive.
I guess they did a good job with Legolas, because I kept thinking he was going to die and then having to remind myself that he survives to LOTR. The attack on Smaug was Temple of Doom-esque and totally unnecessary but I liked it anyway. I didn’t quite get how the molten gold managed to momentarily form a giant Dwarf statue before suddenly dissolving. Tauriel was likewise unneeded but I enjoyed her addition. I thought the politics of Lake town was silly though, despite Stephen Fry.
Is all the added necromancer stuff from the other Tolkien books or made up for the movie?
I do believe in LOTR book not movie the blacks [Southrons] were the guys with the giant elephants and allied with Mordor so they probably would not in all actuality be seen in The Hobbit. One might possibly have seen them in seaports as sailors on trading vessels.
I was also surprised by how far in the plot the movie got. All that’s left is
The siege on Laketown and the Battle of the Five Armies, the latter of which Bilbo slept through.I guess they’ll have to really expand the Orc and Tauriel plots for the third movie, and have a couple epilogues.
Might I request information: roughly what proportion of the whole film, is occupied by Bilbo and the dwarves’ struggles with the giant spiders in Mirkwood? I am somewhat arachnophobic; spent the entire LOTR film segment involving Shelob, with my eyes closed. I’m happy enough reading in the book “The Hobbit”, about the spiders and dealings with them; but with Jackson’s film-making being able to make things look horribly realistic…
If I’d have to spend more than “so much” out of the whole of this “Hobbit” film, with my eyes closed; I’d wonder whether expenditure on a cinema ticket, was worth it.
Gandalf made some very vague references to it, I don’t remember exactly when or if it was said to Bilbo or Frodo. It was a few sentences only IIRC. So I think the movie pulled it from thin air. My take is I’m glad they didn’t show too much of it - I had visions of Radagast leading an Ewok-like squirrel uprising against the Necromancer. So I thought it would be a lot worse. At least they’re pulling the new stuff together in storylines rather than having people randomly falling off cliffs for no reason. :rolleyes:
I really dislike the Tauriel triangle, an Elf and a Dwarf together is just so wrong. I have a feeling they’re setting up Legolas’ hatred of Dwarves in LOTR, which means he won’t get the girl. I’m nominating her for the dramatic slow motion death of the third film. Plus Thorin’s insistence that Killi stay in Lake Town and the subsequent breaking of the party is just baffling. I guess it’s supposed to show how messed up from the goldlust Thorin was but its more needless tampering with the story.
On the other hand most of the rest was pretty good, although I’d have liked to spend more time with Beorn and in the Forest with the spiders, both of which I remember as fairly long and tense scenes in the book. Beorn looked different than I’d pictured him (I was expecting someone more muscular) but was good. Thurandril looked and sounded great. Legolas looked much older than in LOTR, which felt a little strange but I guess is to be expected.
I’m not sure how I’d rate it, I’m going to see it at least once more, so I’ll have a better feel for it then. Maybe the 3d version this time or maybe not, it wasn’t that great in the first one and looked gimicky. You can kind of tell which bits are going to be in 3d because there’s stuff flying directly at the camera and there’s scenery or animals in the foreground that are supposed to pop out.
Vontsira the spider scene is not that long, maybe 10 mins?
I’m pretty sure “Middle Earth” is just a translation of “Midgard”, and was used as such by scholars of Norse mythology before Prof. Tolkien took it as the name of his mythical realm.
I imagine they’ll also expand on “driving out” the Necromancer. Didn’t the White Council move to confront him at Dol Guldur during The Hobbit? IIRC, Gandalf relates this to Bilbo after the Battle of Five Armies.
The Necromancer, however, is a step ahead of them and takes up his old haunts.
I liked it overall pretty much. Saw it in 3D 48 FPS, didn’t find either of those elements distracting.
There’s a lot I could argue with if I were more of a JRRT purist, but they used a LOT of core JRRT material, just pulled in from sources other than The Hobbit. I’m okay with that. The Hobbit was a kid’s book, and JRRT wrote a lot about it in later years, fleshing it out and making it fit better into his overall mythos.
I don’t mind Taureal, it really gives the film more chances to show that Thranduil’s a dick, an opinion I held ever since Silmarillion came out.
Before the movie FOTR even came out, I’d decided to enjoy it for what it was, one man’s vision of what JRRT’s world looks like. That’s worked for me.
I just wish they’d stop hopping around all of Middle-Earth in a day and a half…
Vontsira, the spider part wasn’t long - it was shorter than the bits with Shelob in LoTR - 10, maybe 15 minutes? Have a shoulder-buddy handy to tap you back in, because there’s some nifty Legolas-vs-dwarves stuff that happens RIGHT AFTERWARDS and I almost missed it.
I spent the entire spider part with my eyes closed tight, and I could follow the action perfectly - the sound effects are well-done enough to let me know what was going on. shudder
Also, because I was jumpy and worried both before and afterwards, there are NO spiders at all before Bilbo climbs up a tree. Close your eyes IMMEDIATELY once he ducks back down.
On the other hand, once you get done with that scene, there aren’t any more spiders at all. They do not show up anywhere else in the rest of the film, so you can rest easy.
gah - spiders. Why is it always spiders?
I liked it a lot, though it was extraordinarily confusing in some places. But I find it hard to fault moviemakers for having too much enthusiasm for their craft. I think this movie is what you get from people who are really, REALLY enthusiastic about "The Hobbit;’ and really, REALLY enthusiastic about making movies; and this manifests in some problems with impulse control. In a way it sort of felt like having a mind-meld with a profoundly immersive Dungeon Master.
I thought it was interesting how they tweaked the storyline in subtle ways, to lend the quest a bit more plausibility in translation from a children’s book. I recall that in Tolkien’s later writings, he basically had Gandalf acknowledge that the dwarves’ quest was profoundly ill-conceived, and the wizard was only reluctantly coaxed into supporting the effort through a mystic confluence of various portents and coincidences. In the movie, everyone seems to have thought things out a bit further, even if it’s not always apparent what they have in mind. Here, Thorin at least has a definite long-term plan to oust the dragon.
The enhanced significance of the Arkenstone was a clever twist, turning it into a more central plot device rather than just a one-use MacGuffin as in the book. Of course that just emphasized the Dungeon Master-ish “Quest for the Giant Gem” vibe for me, but in fairness, it’s also very Tolkienish.
I got a bit impatient with the prolonged Lake-Town scenes, and the Dwarves’ profoundly goofy improvised plan to prematurely slay the dragon; but ultimately I can’t complain too much about getting more movie for my theater-going money. Smaug was surpassingly dragony. The spiders were exceptionally spidery. The barrel escape was successfully comedic. All in all, I am glad I saw this one on the big screen.
One thing did stand out, however, that instantly exceeded my suspension of disbelief. Beorn’s house had a chessboard in it. I can easily accept the reality of an 8-foot tall, primordial shapeshifter; but I cannot believe that he plays chess.
I’m pretty sure in any other movie I’d be bitching about the inclusion of Tauriel, but since I’m not afraid to admit that it comes to fantasy I’m in it 75% for the elves, 20% for the humans, 5% for the dwarves and -25% for the halflings (I dunno, bump up the elves to make up for it?) I’m quite pleased. Especially since she’s played by Evangeline Lilly, who dropped off the face of the earth after Lost and deserves better.
Also, I can watch prissy bitch Thranduil all day. Happily.
I spent Smaug’s scenes either giggling at Cumberbatch’s voice or expecting Deathwing to bring the Cataclysm onto Middle-Earth, which makes me feel bad because I shouldn’t be thinking of a derivative over the original.
Regarding Dol Guldur:
DO NOT WANT FLAMING SLENDERMAN SAURON. 
:eek:
Just back from seeing it. Not bad. The Necromancer stuff felt terribly… extraneous, I’m afraid, but whatevs. Impressed with Smaug’s appearance; not so impressed with Cumberbatch, as his voice was buried under so much FX that it was rather hard to recognize it as him. Shame he shook off all that gold when he left the mountain–he was right purdy. 
As jackdavinci mentioned, I’m surprised that it took the plot so far; there really isn’t much left. I’m sure the Necromancer stuff will pad the final installment out to the necessary three hours, though.
Smaug was definitely awesome. Indeed, the teasers and trailers fall utterly short of his enormity. I can’t believe the dwarves tried to kill him with molten gold, though. Anyone who’s watched Game of Thrones knows that’ll only kill whiny little punks who claim to be dragons. 
I did wonder why not a single person in Laketown noticed that orcs were attacking Bard’s house. You’d think at least one person would have woken up and said, “What the hell’s makin’ all that racket?”
There’s still plenty left for the third movie, though. You’ve got the battle with Smaug, the Battle of Five Armies, and, of course, the White Council forcing Sauron out of Dol Guldur. That movie will probably end with Sauron torturing Gollum, who screams, “SHIRE! BAGGINS!”