I didn’t really see it as endorsement at all. I found the tone of the movie to be more observational and not judgemental. Then again, maybe that was the expectation set up in me by the person who recommended it.
I think that the only thing I didn’t like about the ending was that it really ended up being about one character, when throughout the movie it was really about three. To me, it was a relationship movie. At the end that was just gone.
Yes, agreed. That was my problem with the movie too. They set you up to watch Sanborn specifically and then he was relegated to a bit of a bitch role.
Whole Bean It’s ironic that a Ministry track would make you think that. Incredibly Ironic.
I have been inculturated to Ministry so I associate the sounds with a bit of a primal futility. Which is what I saw the movie as being about, primal futility. He followed his wild nature at the expense of everything else.
I agree–I don’t think there’s any sort of endorsement at all, and the type of music that plays (it’s not anthemic or triumphant) and the way the scene is shot (desolation and carnage, with a lonely isolated character) reinforces that; plus that extra title is the kicker. There’s nothing admirable about having so compartmentalized a set of emotions, so while what he does in the field may be good, what doing it has done to him personally is unquestionably not (and if the movie did want us to feel this way, it would have stacked the deck, making his wife a shrill harpy, his house a complete shithole, and everything about stateside life bleak and unappealling). In the end, the movie accepts him for what he is, but acceptance is not the same thing as advocacy.
I found shopping at Wal Mart to be bleak and unappealing. Maybe I am a sociopath like the main character who just hasn’t found a positive outlet. 
I can totally identify with him, I am pretty much alienated from modern society, but I fake it because I have nothing better. Had I fallen into a position like the one he had I can see myself embracing it to the detriment of all else.
It has nothing to do with love. It has to do with finding fulfillment in what you’re good at. He’s a reluctant husband and a absentee (out of necessity) father. Is he a good father? Could he be? He probably has no idea, and that sense of uncertainty can lead to a spiritual emptiness. The only thing he finds joy in is the thing that he’s good at, so even though it’s the thing that will probably also get him killed one day, that’s where he finds meaning in his life. It’s a profoundly sad insight into his character, but hardly an unusal one.
The song’s lyrics might be relevant to poltical policy in the middle east, but they have very little relevance to the personal story being told. The song is about politics, not a self destructive personality. Setting aside the lyrics, which probably never will be read by most who see the film, we’re left with a thrash metal song that sounds like something a wrestler might have played while he enters the ring.
Because for him, that’s how he feels suiting up. But just because we recognize that that’s his state of mind doesn’t mean we’re invited to see it as well-adjusted or normal.
That’s not the song that played at the end of the movie. I was just making an aside at how funny it is that you interpreted Ministry as ‘rah rah go USA!’ It’s a tangent.
And yes, it’s a thrash metal song, and yes it speaks to William James being a badass, but that doesn’t mean that being a badass is all there is, and i think the ending of the film made that point very effectively.
It has something to do with Love because:
he states explicitly that it does. He says straight up to his kid, I love my job, I don’t love you.
I think you guys are projecting a little too much on this. There is this idea that something has to be a moral lesson. Every story has to be a moral lesson for the kids. The movie has to eventually condemn the character for being the way he is, otherwise it’s socially irresponsible. I disagree with shackling stories to moral parable. It’s a character driven story, William James is the character. He is a badass, what he does IS a good thing, he is appreciated for it by many people, but outside of that one thing he doesn’t choose any other aspect of life. Obsessives make very interesting characters.
You’re probably right in that I’m conflating acceptance with endorsement. Change that last song, and I’m totally on board with everything you’ve written in this post and the others.
The song at the end of the movie was “The Khyber Pass” by Ministry.
Man, changing the song would be a horrible injustice, that song is phenomenal and perfect for the ending.
Ok, didn’t remeber the song from the movie exactly and thought that’s what you’d linked to. I see what you’re saying about Ministry not being pro-expansionist America. Doesn’t change my comments about the song.
ETA: Archive Guy I am warming up to your interpetation.
Sure, but I don’t see how you see Khyber Pass as being like a Pro-Wrestler’s entrance.
You have a clearly very different experience with this kind of music which to me speaks about pain and suffering.
Heh. You’re right.
Not being able to tell someone you love them is different from saying “I don’t love you” (unless I’m misremembering the film).
I agree and never meant to suggest there’s a moral to learn. It’s nice that Bigelow stands at arms length and allows the characters to reveal themselves for all their complexity and contradictions. What he does is undeniably good, and what makes him so good at it is also what makes him so bad at other things. But that’s who he is, and he walks away from the audience in that final shot with the self-assurance to know he doesn’t care what we or the rest of the world think of him.
You’re misremembering.
He talks about the Jack in the box and talks about how the baby loves it but eventually he’ll realize it’s a tin box with a stuffed animal. He talks about how as you get older you start to love fewer things. And when you get to be his age, it’s one or two. And then he pauses to think about it, “In my case, it’s just one.”, cut to him walking down Baghdad/Kandahar/Fallujah/Kabul street in the bomb suit. Cue incredibly awesome and perfect music.
This bit I agree with.
Missed the edit window. You would be right if the movie were about geo-politics. It’s not.
Yeah, that was a good little speech–though I think it was something he was only beginning to realize about himself at that moment (and fortunately, something the kid is unlikely to understand or remember in the future).
He cares. That’s why he’s unable to do the really hard things and so just quits on them - like take responsibility for his kid’s welfare or the welfare of his soldiers. Because those things are things he could and might fail at. If he fails at being a badass then he dies and won’t be around to face any consequences. He’s a sad character. Bigelow makes him a bit of a superhuman, too. Why give that treatment to an asshole?
I was talking sonically, not in terms of the lyrics. The lyrics don’t fit, but the music certainly did.
Sounds like your problem with this film goes a bit deeper. Sounds like you just viscerally disliked the main character.
It was made clear in the beginning that he was a terrible husband but that she was a good wife.