Oh, are we bashing Garden State now? Some people get all miffed when I describe their favorite movie as “one of the worst movies I’ve ever sat through.” They don’t even want me to start on the movies I didn’t sit through, of which Garden State is one. I’d rather have my eyes ripped out and the sockets fucked by electric eels than even attempt to watch that smarmy piece of shit again.
BTW, Hostile Dialect: “middle America” isn’t necessarily a geographic distinction.
Yeah, a movie about wine snobs traveling through wine country; a movie about a beauty contestant from the desert; a movie about an overpaid, underemployed and overmedicated stoner riding a Vespa with his quirky girlfriend…these describe what Palin likes to call “real America”.
Hostile Dialect,
Hostile Dialect, Narcissist
Yes.
I mostly liked Juno, but detested the clinic scene and the way birth control was a non-issue. I agree that it’s not so much Juno being stupid about safe sex, it’s just that it seemed as if birth control was some sort of blank spot in the film.
Napoleon Dynamite, to me, felt so look-at-me-I-am-an-underground-hit, and was much more fun to discuss the next day than to actually sit through.
Juno had plenty of its own contrivances. The dialogue could be precious (that scene with the pipe!), but I did adore the production design, the soundtrack, and most of the performances.
Well said, crowmanyclouds.
As an exercise, figure out exactly how you’d have incorporated more material about birth control or safe sex into the film. Juno’s not (at least from anything presented in the film) having sex at every opportunity prior to her episode with Paulie – it’s at least strongly suggested if not actually stated (can’t honestly remember) that that was a first-time, one-time thing – certainly neither of them has much doubt about what sexual encounter resulted in her becoming pregnant. By the time the movie starts, she’s already pregnant and doesn’t seem particularly interested in having sex with anyone. The characters around her (her parents, friends, etc.) are at least discerning enough to realize that it’s a bit late to be making any points about birth control, at least for her. It’s just not an issue at that point, and any attempt to interpolate a “message” about birth control or safe sex would (IMO) inevitably feel contrived or forced. Juno’s reaction to the clinic receptionist’s advice about the flavored condoms makes that pretty clear – it’s just not what she’s concerned with then.
More importantly, it more or less ruins the feelgood pregnancy comedy[sup]TM[/sup] if there’s a serious discussion of the fact that a lot of teens (and unmarried adult women not in relationships) choose not to keep unwanted pregnancies.
Yup, I know.
And Rackensack, I’m no writer, but it did occur to me that even though Juno is already pregnant, there might have been a bit more discussion about the consequences of teenage pregnancy, not necessarily abortion, but all the accompanying problems of giving birth? But yeah, this then goes back to what Marley says.
This film does have moments of real emotion, it’s just that I felt as though some of them were skipped over.
When I said feelgood pregnancy comedy[sup]TM[/sup], by the way, I was also referring to Knocked Up, which I liked. Knocked Up didn’t softpedal the abortion issue as much as Juno did, but they did gloss over it pretty quickly. But the important thing was that I found Knocked Up a lot funnier than Juno and a lot less annoying. The soundtrack also didn’t irritate the living crap out of me.
…And I’m rebutting your claim of a “discernible aesthetic,” point by point, film by film.
Leaving out Sideways, which I don’t think belongs in there, I think there’s a common thread in there. It’s true that they’re all comedies about alienation, usually alienated young people in particular, there’s a lot of droll sarcasm, some common types of music on the soundtrack, and were all distributed by Fox Searchlight (in the case of Napoleon Dynamite, Fox Searchlight and MTV). But like you I enjoyed some of those movies and didn’t like others. Actually I liked Little Miss Sunshine a lot, thought Juno was okay, and disliked the others - in particular I didn’t laugh at or like Napoleon Dynamite at all until the scene after the credits.
crowmanyclouds, that was an amazing post, and really well thought out. I guess where we differ is that I don’t see that there was anything to get about Paulie. He came across as spineless, always bending when pushed. We never saw him challenging Juno or giving her anything to think about; we never saw why she thought he was so cool. I came away thinking that what she liked about the relationship was that she was unquestionably in charge.
My lord–and what a tragedy for Bleeks that would be. Can’t have anything disrupt Paulie’s nice little life. It’s fine to mess up Juno’s, though. Again, he’s one passive little [can’t say here due to new Ed rules]. If anything, his refusal to actually stand up and take responsibility for his own actions underscores my point, not yours.
I agree that it may be true to life, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t suck. She’s pregnant. By him. So what does he do? Nothing, really. And who goes out with someone else because the girl you knocked up told you to? Where is Paulie here? There is no Paulie. He’s way too passive. And (this may be a fault of the script and/or direction) we get no sense of his feelings re this pregnancy. Wouldn’t a guy be scared and maybe angry? I get the sense Paulie is waiting for more instruction (which is true to life), but I get nothing else.
Um, how come Paulie acting like an asshat is lauded, but Juno acting like a typical teen girl is somehow construed as causing Paulie to ask out Soup Chick? Why is she doing all the heavy lifting here? Where is Paulie?
I don’t see it this way. Well thought out, soul baring speeches are rare at any age. It’s a nice moment, the bag carrying, but truly, it’s the least he can do. It’s not the only thing he can do. Juno had sex with him and you think Paulie’s not sure of how she feels about him? Is youth today truly that cut off from the feelings engendered by sex? I doubt it.
There is no win here: if Paulie had sex with her because she offered herself to him and then thought she didn’t like him, what did he think? That she offers herself to anyone? That girls just do this randomly with no repercussions? He didn’t think, period. He didn’t act. I’m about to think that his penis is not really attached to his body (I am aware it already has a mind of its own).
Not really. There are concrete differences, of course, and I agree that Mark was probably more popular than Paulie etc. But he runs away from responsibility just as much as Paulie did. This is just not his problem. I think at bottom, Juno is glad to have a Vanessa in her life. She knows that she can’t handle the baby, and she knows Paulie can’t either. He may be the cheese to her macaroni, but not long term.
Yes. Absolutely. And he is different from Paulie how? He had sex with Juno because she threw herself on top of him. Does he initiate anything in his life at all?
Not many women who want to have a family, some financial stability and security tend to think the sun shines out of asses like Mark. Vanessa “gets” him all right–and doesn’t like what she sees. I agree that on the surface they look perfect, but it’s Vanessa who keeps the pact; Vanessa who will do whatever it takes to keep her baby safe and secure. She’s not chasing moonbeams and pretending to have a talent she doesn’t possess. She’s real. I think it took seeing Juno and how she coped with teen pregnancy to show Vanessa what is real. I most sincerely hope that Juno is not with Paulie in 5 years. I hope that Paulie grows up a bit (and Juno, too).
See, I think Juno outgrew him the moment that pee stick turned blue. I don’t think there’s anything to “get” about Paulie–he’s too passive a character.
I also liked this movie. It has fueled discussions and thought for me over time. It is too cute in some parts (the drugstore scene at the beginning), but overall it does a good job in depicting the upheaval to all that being pregnant brings.
I think the ending is wrong, though. I think Juno and Paulie should agree to be friends, but not be dating one another.