What possible difference could this make? Once the car is motionless and the feds are shouting at her, all else is irrelevant for the purpose of a lethal-force determination.
One possible difference might be a desire to get a clear, full picture of what transpired that morning. Of course, if that is not important to someone…
Another thought - assume the shooter was standing directly in front of a car that is hurtling at him. What could he possibly do to protect his safety? Possibly run/jump to the side or up on the hood? I could imagine an impulse to push off against the car. But how on earth does it increase the person’s safety to SHOOT THE DRIVER? How is that anything near a reasonable reaction, no matter how fast-moving the situation? How is it safer to have a car with a dead driver hurtling at you?
Honest question - why is it important to you? How would it change your opinion of the situation if, for example, she was driving down the street versus there to protest?
What possible extra information is missing!?!! You have video and audio of the murder and murderer and the events that led up to it, from multiple angles. That is as full a picture of a murder than you will ever hope to get! What possible extra information is needed?!?
I have the same question about this. Who cares what the feds do? What extra evidence could possibly be required to prosecute this crime? Of course the murderer and his accomplices are not cooperating with the investigators and not handing over evidence of their crime. In how many murder investigations does that happen? I’m guessing close to zero. There is clear video and audio of the murder from several angles, and the people who took it are available (and several other eye witnesses) to the investigators. It’s an open and shut case for the state to prosecute.
Seems like the local DA has same thought….
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/5680312-fbi-rescinds-cooperation-minnesota/
Honest response - when I encounter a situation that shocks and confuses me, I like to get a clear idea of what was going on. (When I say confuse, I mean confusion over the fact that my government is acting this way, not confusion as to whether Good ought/deserved to have been shot.) Many of you seem to think that a minute or 2 of videos is all you need to firmly make up your minds WRT all aspects of this situation. Congratulations. I admit that I lack your certitude.
It would make some difference to me if Ms Good were simply a mom pulling out of her driveway, as opposed to someone who had been directly confronting ICE officials on this or prior days. No, in neither situation ought she have been shot. But it WOULD make a difference to me in understanding the degree of risk an average bystander or peaceful protester faces as opposed to an active confronter.
I will repeat for the nth time, it would not change my firm conclusion that she did not deserve to die and is pretty much a martyr, but it would affect my opinion to know whether she was simply a befuddled motorist confused by conflicting orders - as many of you seem to suggest. Or if she had a history of aggressively challenging ICE thugs. It makes some difference to me the degree to which she intentionally/aggressively/recklessly inserted herself into this situation. And I wonder the extent to which I would do so if I had 3 young children.
In case it is not yet clear, I am a HUGE supporter of free speech and oppose every aspect of this administration’s immigration policy. As I’ve said before, I am uncertain exactly to what degree it is allowable for a citizen to disobey orders from an ostensibly legitimate LEO. I don’t know what her best response ought to have been. Should she have put the car in park when the thugs approached her door? Should she have surrendered - even though she likely reasonably feared her safety? Or did she reasonably believe she was innocently following orders to leave.
IMO, knowing why she was in that situation is somewhat relevant in evaluating the reasonableness of her actions. It might only make the difference between opining that she was 0% responsible (driving down the street) and maybe 5-10% responsible (if confronting very aggressively but not physically.) Note that even in my worst view of Good, the ICE thug is still 90-95% responsible. If that is not enough for some of you, I doubt I can convince you otherwise.
You could’ve just looked this up yourself. She was dropping her kid off at school. Not that it matters. But, yes, she had a reason, which hopefully you’ll consider valid, for driving her car on a public road in residential area a few blocks from the school.
No, it’s not.
The only way any of HER actions play into this is if you’re working on the assumption that she was attempting to kill the ICE agent.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to know more about what lead up to the situation we all saw in video (unless you’ve got an ulterior motive for wanting to know). Was she just going down the street when she stumbled into an ICE operation? Was she doing God’s work as a legal observer? Was she going home and saw this and decided to join those protesting? How she got there doesn’t change the fact that this was fucked up and wrong, but come on. This is the place to learn and ask questions. Especially a forum like P&E.
From what I’ve read on various socials, she and her wife were going home from dropping Good’s son off at school when they saw the operation happening. Good’s wife then suggested they stop and observe. I believe she was not in the truck as she had gotten out with their dog to video what was happening. Afterwards she said something to the effect of “This was my idea. I just got my wife killed.”
Now I don’t have any cites on that, so if anyone else has more info…
The wiki page on the incident says her mom said she wasn’t involved in any protests. Says her ex said she was just driving home from dropping their kid off at school. So based on those two things, it sounds like the spontaneous suggestion from the wife to pull over may be somewhat accurate
That’s not how murder works. There is never any circumstances in which the murder victim is 10% responsible for their murder. It’s either murder and the murderer is 100% responsible or it’s not. Again she could have been leaving the scene of the crime after killing a bunch of kids and she’d still be exactly 0% responsible for her murder.
3 posts were split to a new topic: Doxxing of Ice Shooter
It doesn’t matter if she was. She could have literally have just posted a manifesto on how she was going to kill ICE agents with her car and what is shown in that video would still be 100% murder.
I should’ve been clearer, I meant the only way her actions play into this is if she was, at the time, literally, attempting to kill him. Not planning to, not saying you’re going to, not making verbal threats, I mean, for example, if she had a gun pointed at him or was actually driving at him.
My subtle implication is that if you’re concerned about anything she did leading up to this, you didn’t watch the video and are just parroting RW talking points.
Suggesting she had any responsibility is no different than the old ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ bullshit. I wish I could remember which comedian I heard (Chris Rock maybe) that had a joke along the lines of ‘a man was shot at a gas station and they’re saying he was in the wrong place at the wrong time…where do you go when you need gas?’.
Edit, one more, my dad made the ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ comment about Breonna Taylor, to which said ‘she was asleep in her apartment in the middle of the night, she wasn’t in the wrong place at the wrong time’.
Moderating:
There will be no Doxxing of the accused shooter or anyone else involved with this incident. A warning for @ratatoskK is being issued and the post was moved to the cornfield with 2 replies.
We take this rule pretty seriously and if anything err on the side of caution.
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ETA: The post including the address of the shooter.
This topic was automatically opened after 32 minutes.
Curious, because in the many times I dropped my kids off at school, I’m not sure I remember parking my car at an angle, blocking traffic, such that I needed to wave traffic past me. Maybe that is a Minnesota thing, or I was doing it wrong. /s
Many of you are very comfortable concluding this was “murder”, or that the only relevance to her actions is if she was “trying to kill him.” Thank you. I’ve only been a lawyer (admittedly non-criminal) for 40 years. I apologize that I lack your certainty WRT legal concepts which I thought had different standards, depended on participants’ intent, and generally required some degree of proof. For example, I foolishly thought the possibility existed that a judge/jury/reasonable observer might conclude that perhaps Good and/or the shooter acted recklessly. Or any other possible charge. IMO, not every wrongful death meriting punishment is necessarily “murder”.
This (and other comments) strikes me as a wonderful example of why Dems are so successful (NOT!) I repeatedly state that I viewed the video repeatedly. You apparently disbelieve me. That is fine - though you are wrong, and have ZERO basis for your opinion other than your personal bias. I repeatedly express my wholehearted condemnation of the admin/ICE, and that is not enough for some of you. Instead, you wish to extend your outrage to me for simply expressing some degree of uncertainty and a desire for additional details. My fervent support is not pure enough for some of you. Thank you for that reminder, so I can ensure that I do not conduct myself in that manner.
Because we saw the video.
nevermind.