The Internet freezes up Mom's Mac (OSX 10.4)

Factual Questions
1

So, my mom has always been prone to computer problems, and usually I can resolve them for her. But this one has me stumped.

She’s currently using AT&T UVerse for her Internet. Ever since she’s gotten it, it hasn’t worked right. If, when you start up the computer, you immediately turn off the WiFi on the computer, everything non-network-related works fine. If you don’t turn it off, then everything (including Internet applications) works fine for an unpredictable amount of time (no more than a few minutes), and then the computer freezes up. The mouse still moves, and any “busy” animations that might be active (the rainbow pinwheel mouse cursor, or the cursor with the black-and-white spinning thing next to it, or the one in the corner of the web browser that shows that a page is still loading) continue to animate, but no progress is made in actually loading pages, and clicks on anything don’t seem to have any effect. Command-option-escape also does nothing in this state; the only way out is to power down the computer. The delay before this happens does not seem to depend on what page is being visited; indeed, it happens even if the web browser is not open at all.

When this first started happening, I noticed that the computer both had WiFi on and was also connected to the AT&T router via ethernet cable. I couldn’t find a way in the settings to get it to recognize the ethernet cable, so I unplugged it. That resolved the problem at the time, but now it’s happening again.

When it happens, the router continues to provide a WiFi signal, as tested via my phone. I still have reason to suspect that incompetent installation might have been involved, though, since when she first got the service, the bundled phone service also did not work at all (how does the installation guy even leave the house without testing that!?), and as stated, the Internet service has never worked correctly.

The computer is an aged Mac Mini running OSX 10.4 (I think that was Lion?). The web browser, if it matters, is whatever the latest version of Firefox is that can run on that OS.

Anyone have any ideas what’s causing this, or (more importantly) how to fix it?

2

Any reason not to upgrade the OS? 10.4 is Tiger. 10-4-Fox is a build of Firefox that will run under OSX 10.4 that is based upon close to the most recent release of Firefox. If you can’t upgrade the OS, you should install that.

Having two internet connections active at once is a recipe for a total mess. The OS shouldn’t really let it get to this point, but it does.

What you describe can only be happening with two active connections. I’ll bet the U-verse is active and a legacy connection is also somehow active.

You can get the networking preferences panel up and see what is active. If you can have a wired connection back to the router, always prefer it. But actually disable in the preferences panel all the other possible network connections other than thre one you actually want to use. OSX will connect over a wide variety of things - and it sounds as if something is somehow still finding things.

I had a friend who quite innocently accidentally started to connect to her neighbour’s (unsecured) WiFi. Things worked fine until she tried to send email. It is amazing what can accidentally happen if a few WiFi points appear in range.

3

10.4 is more than a decade old at this point, so I’m assuming her machine is also somewhat old. It may work perfectly fine, but in my experience, the internet of today— with many sites built for more modern software/hardware—will seem exceedingly slow to load.

4

Her previous Internet access (which was slow, but consistent) was via dial-up. The dial-up modem is completely disconnected, and connecting via it required running the Internet Connect utility, which we’re not using any more. The only other Internet connection that would be even physically possible would be another WiFi signal, and though there are a few of those visible (presumably from neighbors), we’ve never attempted to connect via any of them, and they’re all secured.

I don’t think any current version of OSX will run on her hardware, and I’m not sure what the newest version would be that would, nor if it’s even still available anywhere.

Oh, yes, we have that issue, too, and it annoys me no end, because all of the sites that she uses have no good reason whatsoever for all of that bloat. I’ve got most ads blocked on her computer, and that helps some, and she’s migrating from using Netzero/Juno for e-mail to Gmail, and that’s helping some, too. But it’s a moot point if we can’t get the computer working on the Internet at all.

5

If it is an original (2005) Power PC Mac Mini, it can’t be upgraded past 10-5 (Leopard.) Even this is worth doing. If it is a later Mini, it will have an x86 processor. These can get you later version support - possibly 10-7, but at least 10-6. 10-6 (Snow Leopard) made some valuable improvements. At the same time, more memory is probably a good idea. It is dirt cheap for the most part.

The initial problem description seemed to imply that non-network related applications died as well, as the entire computer froze. However, is this really the case. IE, if the browser is never opened, does the machine work OK? Or is it the browser simply bringing the machine to its knees (which it can, even thought it should not.)

6

I think it’s Intel, but I’d have to double-check. Is it still possible to buy 10.5 or 10.6?

And if one boots up the computer and does nothing else at all, then after a few minutes nothing works. If one boots up the computer and immediately turns off WiFi, then Internet-related applications like Firefox don’t work for the obvious reason, but everything else (Finder, TextEdit, Preview, NeoOffice, etc.) does.

7

First place to look is in the Console.

But, if it’s an intel Mac Mini, you should get her on Snow Leopard - probably the most stable OS Apple ever released.

8

Apple seem to be taking the attitude that since it is a Mac, it is entitled to run any OS it is able. You can find downloads of older versions if needed. Say: apple-mac-os-x - CNET Download

I think you need a live chicken.

Something is quietly going nuts, and probably doing something anti-social - like allocating all the memory. You could try bringing up the system monitor and watching what the various processes are doing. I suspect you will see one either hog all the CPU, or more likely, take all available memory. There were a few bug issues in older versions of OSX when memory could get gobbled. Newer version of the OS have significantly improved things. Indeed they actually use noticeably less memory.

9

Oh, good news then: Mom has a half-dozen of them. But, um, she’d really rather prefer that they remain alive.

I hadn’t realized that the OS upgrades were free. As soon as I find out what’s the highest one she can use, I’ll try that. I assume that they can be burned to CD and installed that way (because, you know, no Internet)?

10

Just my 2 cents, but I wouldn’t trust any software at all from CNet/download.com.

Apple doesn’t offer free downloads for those versions, but you can order the Snow Leopard or Lion installer disc from them for $20 (free shipping!).

Here’s a shot in the dark, though I don’t know if the directions will work in 10.4.

Turn the wifi on the Mini off, restart, and go to System Preferences > Network > Airport. Click “Advanced,” then “TCP/IP,” then “Configure IPv6,” and set it to “off.” Turn the wifi back on and see what happens. If you’re lucky, I at least didn’t make it worse.

11

I have no idea what Francis Vaughan meant or was alluding to. Perhaps it is even a private joke between two SD vets.

But OP did, and one can only wish him well in the often disenheartening task of helping one’s parents with their computers.

12

I was simply the need to sacrifice a chicken. Clearly the machine is possessed and an exorcism is needed.

Excellent - I didn’t know they did that.

It doesn’t totally surprise me, there were odd noises made about the need for them to charge for those upgrades to stay on the right side of the accounting rules. Something I would not imagine would have gone away, although they seem to have managed a different way of structuring things with the later releases.

13

I think maybe you’re conflating Apple charging for older operating systems with the Sarbanes Oxley Act crap that went down several years ago. I’m not sure, but I don’t think they are related.

Also, to the OP, this

is half wrong.

Apple doesn’t sell a physical disc of Lion, instead they email you a code to be redeemed and downloaded from the Mac App Store. But shipping is still free(!). And anyway, you can’t update from 10.4 to Lion directly, you would need to buy and install Snow Leopard first and then upgrade from that to Lion.

14

Why not? I had always understood them to be a reputable, reliable site. Is there some news I missed out on?

And I’ve confirmed that it’s an Intel processor (1.5 GHz Core solo). It has 512 megs of RAM, which doesn’t sound like much, but was a lot back in that computer’s day (and really, nothing Mom does on her computer should eat anywhere near that much).

15

Can you explain what this is supposed to do? Im having similair issues with my 2007 macbook pro, ugraded to 10.6.8. Ive just attributed it to it getting old. We’ll see how it does!

16

Here’s an example. You think you’re just downloading the X Lossless Decoder app. But in reality, CNet has served you their own specialized installer that will also install 4 unwanted browser extensions and will also change your default homepage and search engine.

Here’s what happens when you install the top 10 downloads.com apps.

And here are CNet downloads installing fake SSL certificates to make you vulnerable to man-in-the-middle attacks.

I can’t totally vouch for all this, but I also haven’t found anyone refuting it (and it’s referenced at download.com’s Wikipedia page, so, therefore, it must be true, right?). A lot of free download sites play these kinds of shenanigans, but CNet seems particularly egregious. As I said, this is just my 2 cents. For all I know the Mac system downloads are safe, but I wouldn’t trust them.

17

No, unfortunately I can’t explain it exactly, other than it’s my standard answer to the question “why does my wifi freeze up my Mac?” It sometimes seems to happen when people get new routers or new ISPs so I guess there is some little bug or incompatibility in there somewhere relating to how the ISP/router is serving up an IPv6 connection to the Mac. Or not. Eventually, as more stuff moves to IPv6, I assume it will start to cause some problems, but until then…

Don’t forget to tell us if it worked for you.

18

Yeah, I looked up CNet after I posted that, and found the same things. OK, then, cross that one off the list.

It’s a little bit disturbing that you’re asked that question often enough that you have a standard answer.

19

Well, I’m not, actually. I just remember past troubleshooting efforts.

I think it’s more disturbing that I’m giving advice without really understanding why it sometimes works.

20

For what it’s worth, I was over at Mom’s today, tried the IPv6 thing, and it seems to have worked. So far. Knock wood.

Amusingly, I had a hard time remembering my password to make the changes, because I’m not used to typing it on that keyboard.