I think maybe the IRA is getting worried about its role in international terrorism and wants to be seen in a differant light.
I must have been a source of concern to them to have some of their operatives arrested in Columbia, exporting their skill perhaps ? I wonder how many other orgainisations they have contact with.
I would think that they have been working with other groups too, there is thought to be an IRA/ETTA link.
There was talk of some members having trained in the Middle East too, and with all those weapons that Ghaddaffi sent them it makes me wonder what other little skeletons abound in the IRA closet.
Given the recent rhetoric about defeating all terrorist groups I’d have thought the IRA will want to manage its image very carefully, their potential offer to destroy weapons is part of that image management.
I think you’re confusing two things. Paisley is the leader of the DUP, which is a political party. He is not their “spiritual” leader any more than Gerry Adams is the “spiritual” leader of Sinn Fein or Charles Kennedy is the “spiritual” leader of the Lib Dems. Paisley is also a (self-appointed) clergyman in an obscure nonconformist denomination, which I believe is of his own devising, but this has no necessary connection with his leadership of the DUP.
Whatever you think of Ian Paisley (and let me make it clear that I am not a fan myself) he is not a terrorist. The IRA, on the other hand, are terrorists and they have a long history of planting bombs in shopping centres, pubs and office buildings in England and Northern Ireland, which I needn’t point out differ only in degree from the recent attacks on the USA. Since the IRA derives a great deal of its support from the USA – both from politicians such as the Kennedys and Daniel Patrick Moynihan and from ordinary citizens who donate money which has been used to buy explosives to blow up random civilians in the UK – I imagine that they are rightly concerned about the effect on their image of the recent attacks. But for them to condemn bin Laden for using the same tactics that they have used themselves, with some political success, is sheer hypocrisy.
TomH, haven’t you listened or read the works of Paisley? I introduce you to his website. Notice the term he used for Catholics: Romanists, as if they are an idol-worshipping, orgy-loving people. And he as you admitted is the leader of the DUP. He all but justifiied the attacks on the Catholic school girls. He is, IMO, just as bad as the incarcerated sheik.
I don’t think anybody’s holding a brief here for the Rev. Dr. Paisley (I’m told both honorifics are self-appointed, but haven’t confirmed it). But the scariest thing about him, in my opinion, is that he isn’t the organizer behind the extremist Protestant groups - he’s just expressing the opinions of his section of the community.
It’s also fair to say that he’s not (as far as I know) directly tied to the Loyalist terror groups. I have no doubt that they agree with many of his opinions, but I don’t think he’s got a meaningful leadership role there. Basically, shutting Paisley up - though an end to be wished for in itself - wouldn’t have any significant impact on the behaviour of the Protestant extremist community.
Steve, the Rev. is self appointed, the Dr. was bestowed upon him by Bob Jones University, yes, the very one that discourages inter-racial dating, and until very recently, banned black students all together.
Hypocrisy has no “a” in it. It’s a word that is often used on the boards and the fact that a lot of folks spell it "hypocr-a-sy is beginning to grate on me. Just think CRISY.
Thank you, and I myself happen to be against all forms of terrorism.
Well, the news that Ian Paisley’s doctorate is authentic, and from such a prestigious educational institution, has converted me to all his social programmes completely. No more Gawdless Papism or immoral line-dancing for me. No indeedy.
(Ummm… has anything good ever come out of this Bob Jones University place? I must admit, when I first heard about it, I thought it was some kind of joke… and I’m still not entirely sure it isn’t…)
ageless6, I think my preferred misspelling is “hypocracy”. If only because it sets me off on a strange train of though - by analogy with “democracy” and “autocracy”, I take “hypocracy” to mean “government by hype”. It would be churlish to mention a certain T. Blair in this context, so I won’t. Much.
To get away from the Iain Paisley issue for a moment ,
Imagine the scene in IRA HQ as they watched Dubya declare war on Terorrism.“emmm…that means us lads!”. Couple that with the recent arrest of three of their members (oh all right alleged members) caught training FARC geurillas in Columbia.
The organisation who rely very heavily on a constant stream of income from the US must have gotten very worried that their revenue source might soon dry up.
Sympathetic Irish-American’s feeling toward the 'RA in the past was heavily influenced by nostalgic feelings toward the “old country” and some romantic notion of Freedom Fighters on a crusade against the unjust Tyranny of the Empire.
Now America has seen terrorism in their own back yard they are bound to question the motivations and concepts behind the IRA’s actions.Terrorism suddenly seems a lot more real to the vast majority of Americans I’m sure and many will be thinking a littel harder about just how it is these people operate. Also knowing that there are involved with the Geurillas who supply huge quantities of narcotics to the US which kill American children every year …you gotta figure there were worried people in the IRA when all this went down.
The IRA were warned that they were looking at being added agin to the list of terrorist organisations held in the states.
The timing of their expressions of sympathy was not just hypocritical but cynical and calculated in the extreme.
For my sins, yes. My GF once organised a charity auction and wrote to every British MP (among others) asking them to donate something. Paisley donated a complete set of loony pamphlets, purporting to prove that the Pope was the Antichrist, etc. (Since this was about the time he disrupted the Pope’s address to the European Parliament – late 80s/early 90s – they got a reasonable price. Sir Anthony Meyer donated his post-Thatcher hate mail, which I now wish I’d bought; George Galloway a pair of socks and Claire Short a signed copy of her book about Page 3; IIRC they were the only ones out of the 650-odd who donated anything)
He is also regularly quoted in the UK media in news reports on Northern Ireland.
Saying rude things about Catholics does not make him a terrorist.
His leadership of the DUP is beyond dispute. To clarify: the DUP is a political party like, for example, the Democrats and Republicans in the USA. The IRA is a terrorist organisation like, for example, ETA in Spain.
The standard defence from Noraid now seems to be that the IRA has been on ceasefire for a few years, which kind of begs the question of whether their terrorist attacks were ever justified in the first place.
What the fuck are you on about, capacitor? The loyalists who murdered Martin O’Hagan are members of a paramilitary. Paisley is not. What part of this don’t you understand?
Has this always been in the Pit? I could have sworn it was in GD a day or two ago.
Once more, with feeling:
IRA = terrorist group (and, for the sake of balance, UVF = terrorist group).
DUP = political party (and, for the sake of balance, Sinn Fein = political party).
As a rule of thumb, organisations which blow up shopping centres and murder journalists are terrorist organisations, whereas organisations which put up candidates for Parliament are political parties. The two are not mutually exclusive, but generally speaking political parties in NI are careful to keep some distance between themselves and the paramilitaries.
Ah, but he didn’t mention the WTC bombing, did he? Conclusive proof, if any were needed, that Paisley supports Osama bin Laden and the IRA are a bunch of peace-loving do-gooders who are kind to children and furry animals.
Well, seeing as how I am so woefully ignorant of this subject (albeit very interested) that all I could possibly bring to the debate is proofreading skills . . .
You’ve got yourself a proofreader.
[sub]We can discuss fringe benefits later . . .[/sub]
I don’t disagree, but even if they are closely related the IRA and Sinn Fein are not the same organisation. Instead of “keep some distance”, perhaps I should have said “preserve a formal distinction”.
My remarks were directed at capacitor, who seems to think that the DUP is a terrorist organisation and that Ian Paisley is a terrorist. I was trying to point out the distinction between a terrorist group and a political party (which has some force, even in Northern Ireland).
