The Iraq War in retrospect: Victory on almost all fronts

[BrainGlutton]

@Chouan

The US has alienated its allies and its reputation is irredeemably ruined.
A. The coalition of the willing was originally composed of 49 nations. And of these nations, we have the undying support of the UK. Even if you take away the other 48 allies in the coalition, we’d still have the British as our allies.

Brown is drawing down the British forces in Iraq, in case you hadn’t noticed.

[ManiacMan]

@jshore

Well, you are the one who is talking about how Iraq is attracting all sorts of terrorists. My point is that most of the people who are killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq are Iraqis. Whether you want to call them terrorists or insurgents or freedom-fighters is more or less irrelevant. And, by all accounts there is a much stronger presence of AQ in Iraq than there was before our invasion; I think it is unlikely to believe that all of these are foreigners who have come in…Many are presumably Iraqis who have been recruited to the cause.

And then, of course, there are the other places in the world where the anger that we have inflamed by invading Iraq has presumably made the recruitment job for AQ and other terrorist groups much easier. I believe our intelligence community has pretty much admitted this.

Most of the people killing Iraqis are terrorists that are being harbored by Syria and crossing over into Iraq.

[ManiacMan]

@Squink

Bin Laden Trail ‘Stone Cold’

Did u read anything more than the first paragraph?

But in the last three months, following a request from President Bush to “flood the zone,” the CIA has sharply increased the number of intelligence officers and assets devoted to the pursuit of bin Laden.

[ITR_champion]

@ManiacMan

Most of the people killing Iraqis are terrorists that are being harbored by Syria and crossing over into Iraq.

Can you give us any citation to prove that this lie is the truth?

[ManiacMan]

@Revenant Threshold

I’m sure if an opportunity to catch the guy came up, said agencies would indeed give it a go. But actively hunting him specifically? It would seem not. My cite is the White House and the President..

Hmm. That was in 2002 .

This is in 2006:

But in the last three months, following a request from President Bush to “flood the zone,” the CIA has sharply increased the number of intelligence officers and assets devoted to the pursuit of bin Laden. The intelligence officers will team with the military’s secretive Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) and with more resources from the National Security Agency and other intelligence agencies.

Bin Laden Trail 'Stone Cold'

[ITR_champion]

@Chouan

I’d also like to add that one of the reasons the US hasn’t withdrawn its forces is because the Iraqis don’t WANT us to leave. I’ve spoken with members of the armed services who have served in Iraq, and every one of them informs me that 1. morale is high among the troops and 2. the Iraqis want them (the Americans) to stay there.

This is yet another miserable and cowardly lie on the part of Chouan. The truth is that

Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm.

according to a poll published in USA today. So Chouan will soon put in another post apologizing for telling this lie and explaining why he did so.

Coalition forces will remain in Iraq for a similarly long time, as long as the Iraqis want us there.

The Iraqi have wanted us to leave since the day that we first arrived. So if your statement were the truth, then coalition forces would have turned around and departed the very minute that they first invaded. Every word that you write confirms the fact that you live in a fantasy la-la land, and adds more proof that we should pull our troops out immediately.

[Der_Trihs]

@ManiacMan

Most of the people killing Iraqis are terrorists that are being harbored by Syria and crossing over into Iraq.

Again, garbage. Foreign fighters comprise only a few percent of the fighting going on in Iraq.

[ManiacMan]

@Sophistry and Illusion

Yes, there is a better way than by counting bodies. The death toll is not just the people who died as a direct result of combat–it is also the people who died of disease because of destroyed hospitals; or because of contaminated water supplies, where before the war they had access to clean water; or because of malnutrition where before they had access to food; etc., etc. The Lancet did all of this and estimated, over a year ago, that the estimated ‘excess’ death toll for the war was 655,000. They used commonly-accepted demographic tools and methods.

And I’m not the one posting racist posts. Pop quiz: who posted the following:

I spent 6 years living in the Arab world, and happen to think that a few thousand American lives are not worth 600,000 Arab lives. But hey, to each his own, right?

I posted the very same thing about war being Hell spoken from the mouths of combat veterans who actually endured war. I lost a family member because of this war. Guess what…war is Hell. How the fuck did you get racism from me?

This:

I spent 6 years living in the Arab world, and happen to think that a few thousand American lives are not worth 600,000 Arab lives.

IS racist!

Is the death toll more than ours YES. Is the death toll over 600k? No…sorry I don’t believe it at all. I want to see the bodies…I want proof. Show me 200k bodies. Show me 100k bodies. Show me 50k…

[ManiacMan]

@Marley23

Oh, please. If you took the time to read up on the subject at the time, it was clear in 2002 that there was no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda, before there was any “rotten situation.” And look at Squink’s post from this afternoon, because that sure didn’t come from people trying to capitalize on the current political climate.

I’m calm, so please, don’t patronize me.

Who wrote it? Was it all written objectivly and free of BS, or hidden motives?

[ManiacMan]

@BrainGlutton

As I understand it, most of them got away, which I’m sure could have been prevented with better planning.

I wonder if all the ones that got away made their way to Iraq?

Iraq is a “better” battle ground. Accessible. Not covered with mountains…

[ITR_champion]

@ManiacMan

Is the death toll more than ours YES. Is the death toll over 600k? No…sorry I don’t believe it at all. I want to see the bodies…I want proof. Show me 200k bodies. Show me 100k bodies. Show me 50k…

All the bodies and all the proof you could possibly want and more are available at these links:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
http://icasualties.org/oif/

Just Foreign Policy

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:MGGKXpjwPT0J:www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm%3FItemID%3D14007+Iraq+body+count&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1217-29.htm

Now that you have the bodies and the proof that you asked for, you will, of course, recant your previous misstatements and admit that we on the left were correct.

This IS racist!

So according to you, it’s racist to say that America’s act of genocide against the Iraqi people was wrong. Would you care to justify this statement, or should we just assume that you are unable to justify it.

[ITR_champion]

@ManiacMan

Who wrote it? Was it all written objectivly and free of BS, or hidden motives?

In answer to the first question, asking who wrote Squink’s post is a pretty silly question even by your standards. In answer to your second question, yes.

[ManiacMan]

@ITR champion

Can you give us any citation to prove that this lie is the truth?

There are plenty of cites that talk about Syria’s roll…so many in fact that I believe firmly in the saying “where there is smoke there is fire”.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2005/09/13/us_envoy_to_iraq_warns_syrians/

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lerner200310270835.asp

Do you have any cite’s that prove it is a lie?

I am asserting my opinion and belief…you are asserting yours.

[Der_Trihs]

@ManiacMan

I wonder if all the ones that got away made their way to Iraq?

No, they are either still in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. No reason to go to Iraq.

[tomndebb]

@ManiacMan

This:

I spent 6 years living in the Arab world, and happen to think that a few thousand American lives are not worth 600,000 Arab lives.

IS racist!

How is the statement you quoted racist? I can see your desperate need to deny the Iraqi death toll is over 600,000, but even if it is only 100,000, the statement that 100,000 Iraqi deaths were “worth” 4,000 U.S. deaths would appear to be a much stronger claim that one valued U.S. lives more than Iraqi lives.

As for your absurd

@Maniac Man

Show me 50k…

I would point out that the figures used by the U.S. government are taken from the same sources as those in http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ which uses only documented bodies from violent deaths, (ignoring disease, malnutrition, survivable conditions lost to a lack of medical care, and “disappearances”), and even they can demonstrate over 80,000 deaths.

Your “50,000” number demonstrates a complete failure to grasp actual facts.

[Marley23]

@ManiacMan

Who wrote it? Was it all written objectivly and free of BS, or hidden motives?

Hmmm. Why not read the thing and find out?

[Squink]

@ManiacMan

Did u read anything more than the first paragraph?

Did u notice any results of this putative ‘flood’ in the past year?
Bush has always been big on talk, and short on actions. There’s no evidence that he takes bin Laden any more seriously than he took Katrina.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@ManiacMan

Hmm. That was in 2002 .

This is in 2006:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/09/AR2006090901105.html

Hmm. That was in 2006.

This is in 2007:

On the eve of his Camp David meeting with President Bush, President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan painted a bleak picture of life in his country, saying that security had worsened and that the United States and its allies were no closer to catching Osama bin Laden than they were a few years ago.

…

As for catching Mr. bin Laden, Mr. Karzai said: ‘‘We are not closer, we are not further away from it. We are where we were a few years ago.’’

You haven’t denied my cite, I notice. Is it acceptable to you that bin Laden became not a priority? Unlike yourself i’m not all that happy about him not being a priority for any length of time, to be honest.

[BrainGlutton]

@ManiacMan

Do you have any cite’s that prove it is a lie?

Foreign fighters are a very small minority of the Iraq insurgency.

[ManiacMan]

@Der Trihs

No, they are either still in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. No reason to go to Iraq.

Sure there is…there are more targets (westerners) in Iraq. Wannabe matryrs are flooding into Iraq because of that. And they don’t have to contend with the harsh Afgani geography either.